Sports Gamer Online Interview with Kolbe Part 2, Kolbe reveals another late addition

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

I think it is ridiculous to suggest ALL players, when moved to a new position, are going to be worse...Makes zero sense...and since there is no true training camp or practice system to gain expertise at a position, the whole idea of a penalty system is unnecessary and unrealistic to what the game is able to currently offer. OLB Clay Matthews went from outside to inside, and many would say he got better.. defensive line players swap around all the time..The only reason I see to keep offensive players in place is just for the consistency of the blocking system..Many teams swap offensive line players due to injury; if there was any loss in ability it was negligible...Considering the rating system in Madden, losing a couple points here and there will make no difference, so the system was in a sense, useless... You would have to lose 10 or more points to make a difference...

I began looking at examples in my data going to into the 1990s because this is just so interesting and found some guys that literally played every single position on the line over the course of a couple of years. I have a 3 year period from December 2004 to March 2006 where Floyd "Pork Chop" Womack was graded at all 5 positions on the OL at least once. The final variation during that time in his overall grade was +0.04.

I am sure there are more examples in there somewhere (my data set is so freaking massive that it would take me hours to find every instance and isolate them), but to me it only takes "one white crow to prove that not all crows are black".

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

A move from LT to RG, his technique at the new position is worse. Even when you re-evaluate after the fact (some playing time) and adjust his technique ratings, with the current system, it would effect his LT ratings and you would be at the same place with being worse at LT. What you really need is what most baseball games have, and that is an ability modifier of some kind at EACH POSITION so that the LT playing RG would be effected in ability, while his ability at LT would remain the same. I still think your view is flawed about leaving the technique ratings alone after the move, and then re-evaluating and readjusting after playing at the new position.

Alex Boone got significantly better when moved from tackle to guard. He was just more suited to playing in a phone booth than in space.

[berad88]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

I hope the devs, specifically Kolbe & John, aren't reading the forums because complaining about things that they added for us when they didn't have to is not going to bode well for the community getting things extra like this in the future. Even if the feature doesn't benefit you it doesn't take away the fact that they are trying to do things beyond what is required for the betterment of the game and the community. They don't expect anyone to be over the top thrilled necessarily but to complain about something they do extra seems a little ridiculous IMO.

I am not seeing complaints, just constructive criticism and debate which is what helps things improve. I don't agree with the way switching players in implemented and I don't think there is a perfect way to go about doing so because the results could be different for every single person that tried switching positions. I am just not going to use the feature. There are several other features in Madden that I ignore as well just because they add nothing of value to the way I personally like to play.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Another thing - this will help out anyone who plans to use players in multiple roles. Micah Hyde in Green Bay is one example of this. Depending on the defensive package, Hyde plays slot cornerback or safety. In previous Madden games, cornerback and safety are two distinct position groups, and a user switching Hyde to cornerback when he was listed at safety would result in a ratings drop. This obviously shouldn't be the case; Hyde doesn't magically get worse in coverage or become a less intelligent football player just because the two letters in front of his name on the roster chart changed; he's still a player with good enough man and zone coverage skills to play either position (though probably not athletic enough to play outside the hashes effectively). Hyde can play both cornerback and safety in real life, so why shouldn't he be able to do this in the game effectively? This sort of roster versatility can now be replicated in Madden.

Great example! That kid is special, and it was the ability of guys like he and Charles Woodson that is likely prompting GB to get players that can play all 3 positions - look at their first round pick this year if you need more proof of it. They even throw Sean Richardson out their in the Big Okie formation as a 3rd safety in man coverage on the perimeter every once in a while because he displays the speed and agility to basically be a big CB in some situations.

[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by berad88

I am not seeing complaints, just constructive criticism and debate which is what helps things improve. I don't agree with the way switching players in implemented and I don't think there is a perfect way to go about doing so because the results could be different for every single person that tried switching positions. I am just not going to use the feature. There are several other features in Madden that I ignore as well just because they add nothing of value to the way I personally like to play.

Constructive criticism is saying you would like certain penalties to still apply. Complaining is saying oh they just care about the online CFM and the direction they are going isn't what I am wanting. Adding bonus features has NOTHING to do with the direction they are going. I think personally the direction they are going is going to make a lot of OS people happy, but that's going to be up to you guys to decide once you find out more about it.

[4thQtrStre5S]

A player has his abilities and they are constant...The only thing that changes in regards to position, is the skills desired to play the position - such as the different skills desired for LT compared to RT...Moving a player from the LT to RT position doesn't change his abilities, his abilities are set; the skills required for the new position may change, and that player may not have the skill set that is perfect for the new position, but that would be all...

If anything, it is the fact that there is no difference between any of the OL positions in Madden...Each OL position in Madden plays the same..My LT should be required to be quick and agile to take on the fast pass rushers, but in Madden, most sacks seem to come from the RT side..Go figure..

So there are a lot of things missing in Madden, that need to be addressed, before penalizing players for changing position could even make sense..Seems the OL is tethered together as it is; I think most of us have all seen the videos of users lowering all the OL ratings to around 5 and the OL still holds blocks...and some people here want a system that shaves off a couple points for a position change?

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

I began looking at examples in my data going to into the 1990s because this is just so interesting and found some guys that literally played every single position on the line over the course of a couple of years. I have a 3 year period from December 2004 to March 2006 where Floyd "Pork Chop" Womack was graded at all 5 positions on the OL at least once. The final variation during that time in his overall grade was +0.04. I am sure there are more examples in there somewhere (my data set is so freaking massive that it would take me hours to find every instance and isolate them), but to me it only takes "one white crow to prove that not all crows are black".

As a Packer fan, I am sure you are very aware of all the OL changes that have happened over the years, especially due to injury; what caused the trouble was not lack of skills but the lack of teamwork because they had not spent the time together as a group...(At least that is how I see it)

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

That's how the scouts do it, so that's how I do it. They don't change any of the attribute grades until they get evidence to change it, either positively or negatively.

The scouts don't readjust a players actual ability. I think you are confusing reevaluation of a players ability with the actual ability change of the player.

The scouts don't make the players technical ability get worse or better, they just rate on perception. The scouts should be reevaluating, not changing the players actual ability.