Let's Talk Player Confidence - Madden 16 Edition

[bcruise]

Quote: Originally Posted by booker21

I envy you! Are you playing all pro default?

Default All-Pro gameplay sliders, very slightly tweaked penalty sliders (nothing above 55). Fatigue is at 50 and yes, the backups don't get enough touches. I'm more concerned about O-line subbing out though, because they often get yellow on long drives even at 50. As the games wind down the backups do see the field more, but that's just the dilemma of not having formation subs - you have to pick one or the other.

Injuries are at 75 and surprisingly it hasn't been crazy. Usually 2 or 3 injuries in a game between both teams, but only 1 (Dez) has been serious for me.

Edit: Romo's confidence is maxed, but it's only giving him a +1 OVR. His accuracy #'s are 96, 95, and 78 with the confidence adjustment.

[booker21]

Quote: Originally Posted by bcruise

Default All-Pro gameplay sliders, very slightly tweaked penalty sliders (nothing above 55). Fatigue is at 50 and yes, the backups don't get enough touches. I'm more concerned about O-line subbing out though, because they often get yellow on long drives even at 50. As the games wind down the backups do see the field more, but that's just the dilemma of not having formation subs - you have to pick one or the other. Injuries are at 75 and surprisingly it hasn't been crazy. Usually 2 or 3 injuries in a game between both teams, but only 1 (Dez) has been serious for me. Edit: Romo's confidence is maxed, but it's only giving him a +1.

my edited was too late. What is Romo confidence?Tuner also installed right?

Can i borrow your game? man i just hate how some people get different experience than others.

[bcruise]

Quote: Originally Posted by booker21

my edited was too late. What is Romo confidence?Tuner also installed right? Can i borrow your game? man i just hate how some people get different experience than others.

Playing Online CFM, so the tuner is an automatic requirement.

Answered about Romo above.

LOL at the last line. I consider that to be perfectly normal - game wouldn't be fun or realistic if we just got the same results all the time! That's one reason why I'm not sweating the Brady 80% game....yet - Sample size yada yada yada.

Here's the archive from when I was playing last night if you want to see some of the gameplay - both Brees and Brady lit me up (Brees's numbers were still high, but not insane like Brady's)

http://www.twitch.tv/bcruise/v/15321819

[booker21]

Quote: Originally Posted by bcruise

Playing Online CFM, so the tuner is an automatic requirement. Answered about Romo above. LOL at the last line. I consider that to be perfectly normal - game wouldn't be fun or realistic if we just got the same results all the time! That's one reason why I'm not sweating the Brady 80% game....yet - Sample size yada yada yada. Here's the archive from when I was playing last night if you want to see some of the gameplay - both Brees and Brady lit me up (Brees's numbers were still high, but not insane like Brady's) http://www.twitch.tv/bcruise/v/15321819

Thanks i will take a look. Also, see another reason why i don´t like this system. Your numbers (no offense) are awful and still he is 99 confidence.

Edit: I just watched auntil 2 minutes warning, so far i haven´t seen one single over throw neither from Romo nor weeden. When i say overthrow or erratic pass i meant that the pass hit the ground without being deflected, dropped or intercepted. So far all passes were on they money even if some were defelcted or intercepted. The good news is that i do´t want your game borrow anymore

[kadzier]

confidence is a silly stat and not even that realistic. it should be removed from the game altogether.

[GameBreaker35]

Quote: Originally Posted by NEOPARADIGM

I knew someone would say this in one of the first few posts. Listen man, for years upon years people clamored and begged for our sports games to be fully dynamic with progressive and regressive ratings based on in-game performance. Now it's here and new-wave people want it removed. Go figure.

Not everyone clamored for this. I'm going to ask you the same question that I posed to CM. Why do like the idea of confidence? Do you find it to be reflective of the real NFL?

[SyncereBlackout]

Quote: Originally Posted by Alondite

Confidence needs to be in the game, it just needs to be tuned. Why? It's simple: Let's say a team with low-rater players wins their first 6 games. In the real world, this team would be climbing up the power rankings and would be considered among the best teams in the league. Madden's roster updates would also improve the players on this team. In Madden, and without confidence, this team would stay low-rated, and the fact that they are winning games would account for nothing. They could then go on to lost their final 10 games because their players are rated low. This could happen in the NFL, but it rarely does. Confidence boosts their ratings while they are playing well, and will keep them high as long as they keep playing well. The reason why player progression cannot be the solution is because having a few good games does not make a player permanently better. Confidence allows players to go hot and cold. The problem isn't the system, it's the implementation. In-game confidence needs to be more dynamic and needs to change more. A player should theoretically be able to go from 0 to 100 confidence (or vice-versa) in-game if they are playing well (or poorly) enough, and their ratings should be temporarily boosted (or lowered) to reflect the fact that they are "hot" (or cold). The idea is that even one big play should be able to give a team a huge lift in confidence and momentum, just like in the real NFL. Maybe this stat should be called "momentum" rather than confidence. Out-of-game confidence, let's call it "season confidence," needs to be less dynamic. A player starts a game at their season confidence level, and depending on what their in-game confidence level (or "momentum") is at the end of the game, their season confidence could go up or down a few points to reflect it. This also needs to be relative to player skills. A player should need to perform above or below their rating (including confidence-adjusted ratings) to be affected. Players should also need traits to determine how much their confidence is affected. Some players are more stable, while others are affected more by their performance. And lastly, it actually needs to matter for top players. With stats being capped at 99, players who already have 99 in those stats get no bonus from high confidence. Confidence should be able to push stats over 99 for highly-rated players.

You sir have nailed it. Glad I read through the thread before typing an Identical post. Couple of things that I would've added are:

The current system renders scheme useless. I would prefer a player playing out of their scheme (at least for the first year before his scheme ideally conforms to the team's) have a cap to the confidence they can attain. Instead of capping at 99 a guy playing out of scheme caps at 85.

I agree that confidence should be tiered to momentum and player confidence like you suggested. But the ratings impacted by each should be mutually exclusive. If a qb is 5/5 on a drive The momentum should affect his poise (AWR, injury, stamina or toughness). This "momentum" confidence should be tied to unspoken unseen drive goals. Rather than telling me to rush or throw for 20 yards, make all drive goals available but not thrown in my face. grant me the highest level achieved by the time I score, punt or turn the ball over.

I love the idea of season confidence but don't want it attached to the previous game beyond: 1) whether we win or lose, 2) my weekly goals 3) the progress toward my season goal. If the momentum affects things like AWR, stamina, injury, toughness etc, then season conference should impact the expensive skills like throw accuracy, acceleration (players do get more explosive) etc.

If EA insists on sporadically making the game interesting. I wish they would consider momentum changing game time moments/decisions rather than arbitrary drive goals. Confidence is gained on key plays that (as you said above) change momentum. For example, it's 3rd and 15... Important decision. Blitz or cover? Risk reward. Get a sack change field position gain confidence. Play it safe gain less or no confidence.

Confidence as it stands currently is not effective. For example: I often get challenged to keep my opponent out of the redZone. Recently tom Brady scored on a 40 yard pass play. DRIVE GOAL COMPLETED. Confidence for all! Did I stop the offense?. Not even close. But they did stay out of the red zone and all it took was my SS blowing coverage and allowing a TD from midfield.

[GameBreaker35]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

As a game designer I find it to be an interesting wrinkle in the game and, with respect to Game Prep in isolation, an interesting opportunity cost for the user. Generally speaking I'm less concerned about "sim above all else" and more concerned about "does this mechanic meaningfully and in a context-appropriate manner engage the user in the video game and give the user agency in the experience". That's the difference between DDG and Confidence for me; managing athlete morale and its effects on my players makes sense to me and gives me something to do / a new variable to consider as a user, but the game telling me that running for 30 yards on this drive and punting is more important than scoring a passing touchdown - while indeed giving me agency in the choice to pursue those yards - I have a harder time wrapping my head around because it conflicts with the higher-level goal of a football game.

Alright, fair enough. You seem to agree that confidence isn't particularly authentic, but you do like the idea of managing player morale as a factor in roster managment. Is that an accurate statement? Let me offer an alternative that I think satisfies both your need for dynamic user choices and my desire for simulation football.

Instead of having confidence artifically increase player ratings, have it act as a consistency modifier - as it used to work with Dynamic Player Performance. A player that is more confident could perform up to their actual ratings more often than a player with less confidence. Physical ratings such as speed, acceleration, agility, jump, strength, etc. should remain constant regardless of confidence, and technical skills could fluctuate BELOW their abilty from game to game but never ABOVE their abilty.

This gives you a meaningful choice as a user when attempting to make personnel moves, but it also prevents a player from performing above their physical abilty -which unrealistic. What do you think?