Formation Subs vs. Custom Packages

[Tatupu_64]

Not all nickel packages are the same. If I am doing a formation sub, I am doing if for Nickel Wide 9, not for all nickel packages. It is not going to automatically insert Beasley into nickel strong

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ampking101

Honestly they just need to completely rehaul the depth chart set up. We already have a 3rd down back option. Why don't we have 3rd down or pass vs run options? If you add in the ability to choose to sub in one set of players or the other in each category I see no reason why that wouldn't be beneficial, I mean they should give us the ability to do all three but if they allowed us to build our depth chart as our base and then allowed us to package players in and out as a whole.

I've been on this train for a long while, but the formation sub/custom packages seems a little more likely at this point, though.

But the depth charts are long outdated. We need to get the point where we can actually build schemes using the depth charts as templates. If I'm running a 4-3 Under, I don't need a Right Defensive End. I need a LEO and I need that LEO to automatically default to play on the weak side every down. I need a true SAM position on the depth chart, not an LOLB, so that he's always on the strong side, I need a slot for on the depth chart for a 3-technique, etc.

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Granted it's been a long time since I was actually able to utilize the feature in any football game but if I recall correctly, "custom packages" could be achieved with "formation subs" once upon a time. I seem to remember when the formation sub ability, possibly even in Madden, allowed the User to go through every formation and variant, so the User could do exactly what the OP is describing as "custom packages". I think the only limitation was for individual plays but that might have been achievable then too in team management. I think the specific issue with "custom management" in Madden was with Users using that as a workaround to put any player, anywhere, which becomes an exploit due to the games programming. That said, I don't think it's a big deal to just limit "formation subs"/"custom packages" to the same restrictions as the general depth chart, ie only players from certain "positions" can be interchanged. Anyway, the general consensus with regard to this stuff is, add it back to team management/pregame, not just the gametime menu/sideline version.

How far back are you talking, Big? You could use formation subs in-game to try to get scheme-specific but in previous Maddens you ran into the same problem I referenced back to NCAA where the sub was just in there for every set in a specific formation. BUT they would actually stay the way you set them in game from week-to-week if you did them in franchise. Play Now, you were just out of luck.

In Madden 16, they actually have it so that you can sub inside of sets also, so it's more expansive, baut the subs will stay in that set even if you switch packages, and now... well as far as I know they don't stick week-to-week in CFM. At least I know they didn't in '15 (might have been '25) so I just didn't bother after that.

Quote: Originally Posted by downundermike

I used to go crazy with custom packages. Moving my faster recievers to the inside on 4 wide sets, having specific pass rush packages for dime defense. Also just using them for mass substitution.

Man, listen... I don't remember exactly the year they got custom packages in, but the last Madden I had on PS2, I had all kinds of packages. Speed packages, heavy packages, I even put together one based on seniority. I went straight foolish with it.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tatupu_64

Not all nickel packages are the same. If I am doing a formation sub, I am doing if for Nickel Wide 9, not for all nickel packages. It is not going to automatically insert Beasley into nickel strong

I was referencing the way formation subs worked when they were finally implemented in NCAA. It was very limiting.

Even if you are able to sub different sets individually -- which I hope you would be -- it still isn't expansive enough because even if you change the packages on the right stick in-game, whatever sub you made won't move.

So if I see a better match-up for Beasley against a right tackle vs. left, if I have "formation subbed" him in that set then I'm stuck with him where he is. Even using the DE swap package won't move him.

[Big FN Deal]

Lol, I'm actually not sure how far back I'm talking about, it's been so long now, older Maddens and other football game's features are all jumbled together in my memory. My point was, when I think of or refer to "formation subs", I envision the ability to go through all available formations in team management and custom select my personnel.

Here is a video of what I'm referring to in Madden 2008, lmk if I'm misunderstanding somehow though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOLoc9X42NU

[Trick13]

Madden 06 on PS2 had "custom packages"...

... you created them yourself and there were 2 types...

Global - you could do something like sub HB3 for HB1, Sub WR2 for WR1, Sub WR3 for WR2, and WR1 for WR 3> thus creating a strong slot 3rd HB for all offensive formations. If you utilized it for a 2 WR set it would rest your number one WR. I used this extensively with a 3rd RB who was very fast but small, so I named it "Lightning SS", The SS meaning Strong Slot.

I had a bruiser as a primary backup and a global package called "Thunder" in which it sub HB2 for HB1, and another package called "Thunder Heavy" that substituted a back up OL player for TE1, and WR3 with the TE1 creating a singleback sub package and a Iform 3 wide global package.

You also had...

Formation specific packages in which you could go into a specific formation - example singleback trio and create 1 or multiple packages specifically for that one formation. This created a ton of freedom that allowed you to use the same formation with different personnel.

I used this formation specific package creator more extensively on the defensive side of the ball where I would really rotate DL players and used a multiple front system in which I would employ 2 quality pass rushing DEs and 5 run stuffing DTs to create 3 DT fronts in the 3-4 and 2n2 fronts for
46, 43, nickel and dime packages. I also created what would later become known as the Nascar front used by the NY Giants, a few years ahead of them where for nickel and dime situations I created a package that put the 2 DEs at DT and 2 LBs at DE thus creating a speed front to contain mobile QBs.

The only down side to the PS2 system was it did not include SP Teams, however back then you still had formation sub functionality (any formation subs would completely override any packages) meaning for punt/kickoff teams you could "form sub" the players you wanted to be there. Hands team, onside return, punt block, and fg block were for some reason missing from formation subs back then.


There were a couple issues defensively if you attempted to create shadow assignments, like CB1 always play WR1, then sometimes you would get goofy stuff, but then again you had double team plays and safety shading so I just never used the defensive assignments.

I have been complaining in here ever since the 360 launched (several times as this user name and way back when M06 launched on a name I long ago forgot because Madden was flat out terrible until about M12) for this feature to return, and if done properly - meaning every formation including special teams is included then I would be ok with never seeing "formation subs" ever again.

OH, and I do remember WRs were not allowed in custom packages to sub for TEs, and no WRs for RBs - and no TEs in the backfield - for those you had to use base playbooks that had those packages and then add your custom packages onto your profile. Safeties and LBs could go back and forth, DL to LB, LB to DL and CB to safety and other way around, but you couldn't put a DB at DL, or a LB at CB

[Sgexpat]

these are really good points from the OP, but tbh I would be happy with simple formation subs. But the custom packages concept is closer to what I would want from a sim experience indeed.

[mlb61]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Granted it's been a long time since I was....

Bans aren't permanent after all?

[Ueauvan]

ill take both offline only