Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

[vannwolfhawk]

Quote: Originally Posted by Greatnessdc

This was actually my main worry when all of this news started to come out about the new zones. That we would see even more zone coverages ran in 17. I don't remember where I saw it or heard it but I believe Rex Dickson said that man coverage had been improved too and would be a viable option. Fingers crossed.

Agreed! I heard same thing somewhere. Watching videos it didn't look like it but they have 2 months to tune it so I won't judge yet. But your right it will be a zone fest online I have a feeling. The zones looked great!

[ithinkimchipkelly]

Quote: Originally Posted by vannwolfhawk

The problem isn't the ratings of a player in man coverage. You could have a guy with 100 man coverage rating with 99 speed with man coverage slider and pass reaction maxed at 100 and a wr with 1 in route running and 50 in speed and the CB still can't stop an out route or curl route let alone a slant or drag. The problem is that man coverage in madden is just horrendous and needs to be reworked and make it where ratings matter let alone the sliders... As is now 100 man coverage should mean they can defend all routes 90-100% of the time. 100 should be CB coverage boss mode. I had to have all coverage sliders at 100 and it was still too easy to pass for me. The sliders need to be spread out more IMO...

your going to give up passes as some one who ran Man 90% of time in Online CFM with Cover 1 being my base D. You can succeed it's just finding the right personnel to fit your scheme and style of play. If you have a quality pass rush which should be tuned in m17. I will be back in man as well. It comes down to knowing your players and their skill set not just the common attributes. TRAITS also play a huge part in Man along with pass rushing.

Having 80+ prc and awr helps cb diagnose plays quickly or make up faster if they do get beat.

Shading works but it's to iffy. Never know when you put in command will it work.

Have a traveling CB by moving him around once you figure the user/cpu likes to go and just provide safety help to the weakest cb. With quality timing you can knock ball loose from receiver did it several times on all routes especially drags and slants. It should be easier to knock balls out in M17 with live ball physics.

Give me 6-7 guys in my defense who can man cover including backers. I'll just be a ok with having you throw into tight windows every play. While i free lance/provide support from FS spot.

[ggsimmonds]

Certain types of zones are not as effective in Madden, particularly against the cpu.

Fire zone blitzes don't work nearly as well as they should, but the vanilla zones for the most part do.

[Senor Tortilla]

That's a good point to bring up the effectiveness of zone blitzing this year. Against human players, it's a hell of a way to through off their reads, especially if you have a DLineman hopping into a zone quick. Against the CPU is another story, they'll call max protect on your blitz often, completely negate it or complete a quick pass to counteract the pressure.

Man blitzes I find to be more effective, specifically from a cover 1 aspect. The extra LB/DB blitzing can usually force a quick throw before everything develops, while still keeping the integrity of my coverage intact. Rarely do I try to blitz Cover 0, I find I get shredded every time. I'm sure I would have more success against a human opponent, but against the CPU it's an uphill battle.

Press is interesting however, I find it works great, or not at all. It stinks because once the press is beat, the CB is beat as well, especially on drag/slant/streak/fly routes. That being said, you can see WRs knocked well off their routes if they are unable to get a good release. I'd like to see press be given some more love next year, it's a different way to counter a strong passing game, and extremely viable in the NFL.

[Aestis]

Quote: Originally Posted by Greatnessdc

This was actually my main worry when all of this news started to come out about the new zones. That we would see even more zone coverages ran in 17. I don't remember where I saw it or heard it but I believe Rex Dickson said that man coverage had been improved too and would be a viable option. Fingers crossed.

Some of what they are calling improvements to "zone" coverage is actually that they're adding the option to run pattern-match coverage, which is a zone/man hybrid run a LOT now in the NFL. It's technically man coverage, but which man you cover is not pre-determined before the snap. Who your man is is determined by where the WRs run their routes, thus it does incorporate some zone concepts. On that addition alone, man coverage has already been upgraded, it's just that they're quietly bucketing pattern-match coverage under "zone coverage" improvements.

[Aestis]

Quote: Originally Posted by vannwolfhawk

I'm talking more about the CPU ai not playing a user online. But man vs a user with slants and crosses is really all you need to do mixed in with tight end out routes in 16 at least. Yes, users can take something away but you know if you take something away you give something else up. Test it vs CPU. Then tell me no issues with the CPU ai. Can we play 16 head to head and you play man against me :-) Then tell me it's a defense you can play 10% of the time vs a user. Sure it's usable on 3rd and longs when most players need streaks/verts etc... Sure it works as a surprise mix of play calling if you call a ton of zones. Even the press is bad. I could throw immediately as my player breaks the press animation and he's open 9/10 times. I'm just hoping its tuned like the zones this year...

True, when the CPU D runs man it's basically free 1st downs & TDs, no arguments here. I'm also not saying there are no issues, I think man is underpowered vs what it should be. But I ran man somewhere around 50-60% once I got just the right pieces in place and won a SB in our league with it, beating some very strong users including probably the best Madden player we've had. So, I have done it with man. But we used custom sliders too with greatly increased coverage, which makes a big difference.

"Play me and I'll prove you wrong" is a straw man argument that doesn't really prove anything other than you are 10x the Madden player I or anyone in our league is, as you've alluded to before and will now get a chance to prove. I don't even doubt you. None-the-less, with the right personnel at CB & DL & custom sliders & strong usering at LB/S, Man is absolutely viable as a base coverage in M16. I just think it's a lot harder to pull off than zone, which is why you see so much zone in online CFM.

[slick1ru2]

Depends. Against the cpu using a zone defense sometimes seems to take the cpu QB longer to pass and more susceptible to sacks. I usually use man though but I often get killed with those deep post patterns even by the cpu.


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[mrprice33]

Quote: Originally Posted by NDAlum

I have never felt shading have any type of impact on the outcome of a play.

This feels largely fixed in 17.

What man coverage needs (and what we're pushing for going forward) is true leverage and positioning on coverage.


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