What Do You Guys Think. About This For Future Madden?

[DeuceDouglas]

Quote: Originally Posted by SolidSquid

Vision cone was the best gameplay addition to madden I ever seen especially for user vs user guys. If they can find a way to implement something similar while losing the actual "flashlight" on field it'd be awesome. There just needs something to differentiate qbs who can find that 3rd and 4th receiver quicker than other guys.

One idea I've liked that is similar to the vision cone is basically having the QB allowed a certain amount of icons at the snap based on their awareness. So a really low AWR QB would maybe only have one icon and have to cycle through every receiver individually while a top tier QB would have 3 icons (or even all) at the start of the play and would only ever have to make one switch to get to their other receivers.

I think all the QB ratings should be modifiers of accuracy as well and to Big's point of throwing under pressure I think a Poise rating that represents the ability to throw under pressure would be nice and would help differentiate a player like Manziel who throws on the run well but doesn't throw well under pressure.

I liked the vision cone and at the very least wish it was still an option. Sure it was gaudy but not nearly as much IMO as all the assists and icons they've scattered all over the screen the last few years so I don't see the problem there.

[reyes the roof]

I like the idea of something along the lines of a QB with less awareness not having all five receiver icons available at the snap of the ball, as the play breaks down and gets extended then he can have more available. Complete a few passes in a row or make a few 3rd down conversions and maybe that can start adding some more icons available at the snap.


The vision cone had good intentions, the problem is that it is tough to accurately implement because first you have to look to one side of the field, then when you decide you want to throw that way you need to move the vision cone that way, so there is a delay between you seeing where you want to throw and the QB in the game looking that direction

[TarHeelPhenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by SyncereBlackout

I miss the cone. It separated the men from...eh other men. But seriously something like the vision cone would be the next step towards what I think we are looking for. It could be a new implementation of an existing attribute (I.e. Awareness for users) maybe my qb awr is directly correlated to the number of seconds it takes for all of my WR icons to display (implying that an aware qb can move through his reads faster than a qb who stares down wrs) and if you pass to X before the icon appears above his head the pass will be more inaccurate. Another feature that ties into game plans and practices is making practiced plays more effective (think the first head coach) WRs would run the wrong route because they are not synced with the qb because the play had not been practiced. So even though users can see it all we can't anticipate a WR running a slant when it should've been a post. (Flip side to this is that there would need to be a cap on the number of times a play could be practiced in a season and if you "mastered the play" there would have to be a regression system that would make it less efficient over time so that people don't run the same 5-7 plays they practiced.)

Love your idea man. Could be something like the icon for the primary read comes up right away...and then the others follow in a short delay or something. You explained it better than me for sure.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by DeuceDouglas

One idea I've liked that is similar to the vision cone is basically having the QB allowed a certain amount of icons at the snap based on their awareness. So a really low AWR QB would maybe only have one icon and have to cycle through every receiver individually while a top tier QB would have 3 icons (or even all) at the start of the play and would only ever have to make one switch to get to their other receivers. I think all the QB ratings should be modifiers of accuracy as well and to Big's point of throwing under pressure I think a Poise rating that represents the ability to throw under pressure would be nice and would help differentiate a player like Manziel who throws on the run well but doesn't throw well under pressure. I liked the vision cone and at the very least wish it was still an option. Sure it was gaudy but not nearly as much IMO as all the assists and icons they've scattered all over the screen the last few years so I don't see the problem there.

The things is though, as long as they are letting Users play from that view, where we can see every receiver, it's frustrating to not allow them to at least attempt the throw. At least Vision Cone did allow the attempt regardless, just with a drastic ratings hit, I liked that part. The part I didn't like was the mechanic itself, which is the main issue, imo, any mechanic which hinders what should be a quick transition, ie choosing a receiver and attempting to pass to that receiver.

I think of bball games, they have a pass mechanic as well, which is quick and intuitive, like real passing is. They offer icons for precision, all without any secondary mechanic which could slow down the process. That's why I prefer things that inherently differentiates User controlled QBs without diminishing what should be a rather quick process, if that makes sense.

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

The things is though, as long as they are letting Users play from that view, where we can see every receiver, it's frustrating to not allow them to at least attempt the throw. At least Vision Cone did allow the attempt regardless, just with a drastic ratings hit, I liked that part. The part I didn't like was the mechanic itself, which is the main issue, imo, any mechanic which hinders what should be a quick transition, ie choosing a receiver and attempting to pass to that receiver. I think of bball games, they have a pass mechanic as well, which is quick and intuitive, like real passing is. They offer icons for precision, all without any secondary mechanic which could slow down the process. That's why I prefer things that inherently differentiates User controlled QBs without diminishing what should be a rather quick process, if that makes sense.

I'm somewhat digressing, but I thing that basketball games need to be exponentially more unforgiving with user passing accuracy as well. They let Users make way too accurate, no look, behind the back, out of double teams, passes that most players simply don't have the vision or skill to make.

Developers have to take into account the bird's-eye-view that Users have, and apply much harsher penalties when the User attempts a play that the in game player doesn't have the awareness, vision, or skill to make.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by SyncereBlackout

I miss the cone. It separated the men from...eh other men. But seriously something like the vision cone would be the next step towards what I think we are looking for. It could be a new implementation of an existing attribute (I.e. Awareness for users) maybe my qb awr is directly correlated to the number of seconds it takes for all of my WR icons to display (implying that an aware qb can move through his reads faster than a qb who stares down wrs) and if you pass to X before the icon appears above his head the pass will be more inaccurate. Another feature that ties into game plans and practices is making practiced plays more effective (think the first head coach) WRs would run the wrong route because they are not synced with the qb because the play had not been practiced. So even though users can see it all we can't anticipate a WR running a slant when it should've been a post. (Flip side to this is that there would need to be a cap on the number of times a play could be practiced in a season and if you "mastered the play" there would have to be a regression system that would make it less efficient over time so that people don't run the same 5-7 plays they practiced.)

I don't think that's a bad idea either, having more icons appear over time, it would likely need to include a way to select "primary" target or first read presnap like the Vision Cone did. The issue I still see with this is allowing the current view post snap, it would frustrate the User to see all the receivers but only able to throw to those with icons.

Imo, something like this would need some way to still pass to any receiver. Maybe faded out out icons would work, so all icons are visible but only the "solid" ones mean the QB can pass there without a ratings hit.

[SyncereBlackout]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

. Maybe faded out out icons would work, so all icons are visible but only the "solid" ones mean the QB can pass there without a ratings hit.

This is what I'm thinking as well. Pre snap I can hot route the te and see that he is who I want, however he's not the primary target as the play is called. He's 3rd. So it'll be (some variation of) 3 seconds before I can throw to him without an accuracy nerf, but if I throw to him prior to his icon turning solid (or appearing) my (for example) 85 mud accuracy turns to 75.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Road I'm not coming at you, I'm coming at the bold notion, it has never been true, it seems to be something invented to defend why a game isn't created to play more realistic. It puts onus on the gamer for realism vs where it belongs in this case, on EA Tib. I have plenty of issues with Madden, one of the bigger ones is that for all the realism they attempt to add, little to none of it is required to be successful. I'll just use in-game passer ratings as an example so I'm on topic, it makes little difference if RG3's in-game passer ratings are different from Brady's if both can be User controlled to be successful doing the exact same things. The fact that a User can choose not to with RG3 is besides the point, in real life, RG3 in games can't do what Brady does or at least hasn't shown he can, so the game allowing them to do the exact same things successfully, is unrealistic. That's solely on the creators of the game, not the User. I have used the example time and again, if in a NBA video game the User could hit three pointers with Shaq like Steph Curry with stick skill, no reasonable person would still say that's a "sim" game, it's the up to the User not to do it, so the same thing applies here. If anyone were to play Forza and choose to drive on the track backwards, ride on the grass, whatever, just play the game however they see fit, that doesn't make Forza the game any less "sim" or realistic. If someone were to play Mario Cart, not using any of the arcade elements like blasting other cars off the track, played it as close to driving a real race car as possible, that doesn't make Mario Cart any less arcade. Sim has nothing to do with how anyone chooses to play, it's about how realistic the game is designed and created.

I hear you Big, no problem, but guess where I heard that notion from? It was from a regular poster of OS who went to community days at the 2k football studios and a 2k developer told him that.

Also, I usered both Aaron Rodger and Scott Tolzien of the Packers in Madden 16 because Rodgers was out for 9 games.

The immediate drop off was very evident to say the least.

I'm not sure where the notion that the user QB's, at least in CFM, played the same with the user. I'm in season 5 and there is a significant drop off between starter and back-up.

Edit- I'm going to try a CFM game as soon as I can(have family coming in) and user a low ranked starting QB and see if there is a difference between a higher ranking starting QB. I now understand comparing of starting QB's. I will say there is a difference between starter and back-up.

I might be mad if the results are similar to a Brady.