Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

[The JareBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yazan Gable

He did make them better. That's how bad what he had to use was. He was still an exceptional quarterback, but he was in a bad situation.Legendary no-name receivers such as 19th overall pick Marvin Harrison, 30th overall Reggie Wayne, 22nd overall Demaryius Thomas, 82nd overall Emmanuel Sanders, 87th overall Eric Decker, 4th overall Edgerrin James and 30th overall Joseph Addai (they caught passes too.) Let's not forget 24th overall Ty Law, 65th overall Deion Branch, 42nd overall Rob Gronkowski, Hall of Fame no-name receiver Randy Moss, 32nd overall Ben Watson, 56th overall Shane Vereen. I mean, just loaded with terrible, undrafted day 3 players.

Agreed on Manning's teammates.

As for Brady: Gronk is an All-Pro no matter where he plays, for sure, but the other cases, I mean, I don't think Ben Watson ever really set the league on fire, did he? Look at what Moss was doing right before Brady, and immediately after. Deion Branch had steep drop offs after leaving Brady, as did Wes Welker.

[jwing7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yazan Gable

He did make them better. That's how bad what he had to use was. He was still an exceptional quarterback, but he was in a bad situation.Legendary no-name receivers such as 19th overall pick Marvin Harrison, 30th overall Reggie Wayne, 22nd overall Demaryius Thomas, 82nd overall Emmanuel Sanders, 87th overall Eric Decker, 4th overall Edgerrin James and 30th overall Joseph Addai (they caught passes too.) Let's not forget 24th overall Ty Law, 65th overall Deion Branch, 42nd overall Rob Gronkowski, Hall of Fame no-name receiver Randy Moss, 32nd overall Ben Watson, 56th overall Shane Vereen. I mean, just loaded with terrible, undrafted day 3 players.

You seem to be forgetting Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon, Brandon Stokely. Decker is a good player but Manning certainly inflated his stats and got him that contract. Same with DT as well (I'm a Broncos fan btw).

Brady had Moss for one good season. You're leaving out players like Troy Brown, Welker and Edlemen.

Do you want to keep rattling off draft positions of players over the past 15 years or maybe admit that Brady and Manning were consistently the best regardless of what talent surrounded them (which they have had a fair amount at times). Or I guess we can make excuses for Rodgers when he had Adams (pick #53), Cobb (pick #64) and Lacy (pick #61) for most of the year.

[Mauer4MVP]

Quote: Originally Posted by The JareBear

Agreed on Manning's teammates. As for Brady: Gronk is an All-Pro no matter where he plays, for sure, but the other cases, I mean, I don't think Ben Watson ever really set the league on fire, did he? Look at what Moss was doing right before Brady, and immediately after. Deion Branch had steep drop offs after leaving Brady, as did Wes Welker.

I'm sorry. Brady did not make Moss. That is flat out preposterous. Moss is arguably the greatest ever and at least a consensus #2.

[Mauer4MVP]

Quote: Originally Posted by jwing7

You seem to be forgetting Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon, Brandon Stokely. Decker is a good player but Manning certainly inflated his stats and got him that contract. Same with DT as well (I'm a Broncos fan btw). Brady had Moss for one good season. You're leaving out players like Troy Brown, Welker and Edlemen. Do you want to keep rattling off draft positions of players over the past 15 years or maybe admit that Brady and Manning were consistently the best regardless of what talent surrounded them (which they have had a fair amount at times). Or I guess we can make excuses for Rodgers when he had Adams (pick #53), Cobb (pick #64) and Lacy (pick #61) for most of the year.

Personally, I think Adams, Cobb, and Lacy are all insanely overrated.

[The JareBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mauer4MVP

I'm sorry. Brady did not make Moss. That is flat out preposterous. Moss is arguably the greatest ever and at least a consensus #2.

Not sure that's what I said.

I said look at what Moss was doing RIGHT before, and RIGHT after Brady.

Moss is one of my favorite players of all time, I think it is pretty clear that his production was waning a little after he set the league on fire to start his career and Brady helped jumpstart him again for a few years.

[Yazan Gable]

Quote: Originally Posted by The JareBear

Agreed on Manning's teammates. As for Brady: Gronk is an All-Pro no matter where he plays, for sure, but the other cases, I mean, I don't think Ben Watson ever really set the league on fire, did he? Look at what Moss was doing right before Brady, and immediately after. Deion Branch had steep drop offs after leaving Brady, as did Wes Welker.

Randy Moss was on the mid 2000s Raiders. That is like football purgatory. If he went to any decent quarterback situation he would have been dominant. Wes Welker was still Wes Welker with Manning his first year and then the concussions took their toll on him. Wes Welker had declining Peyton Manning and was just on the Rams while everyone knows he should stop playing. Ben Watson was on the Randy Moss/Wes Welker Patriots and then went to the Cleveland Browns and then was sitting behind Jimmy Graham. He finally gets to start for the Saints and he puts up pretty good numbers again. That's probably because of Drew Brees of course, but the point with my list was that these weren't bottom of the barrel players he's used. He's had high to good picks in the draft for receivers to work with like Manning. I say this as a person who prefers Brady to Manning because I feel his offensive circumstances were overall less favorable than Peyton's, but pretending he made all his receivers is a bit much. A great QB elevates his players, and Aaron Rodgers elevated bad to mediocre this past year.

[The JareBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yazan Gable

Randy Moss was on the mid 2000s Raiders. That is like football purgatory. If he went to any decent quarterback situation he would have been dominant. Wes Welker was still Wes Welker with Manning his first year and then the concussions took their toll on him. Wes Welker had declining Peyton Manning and was just on the Rams while everyone knows he should stop playing. Ben Watson was on the Randy Moss/Wes Welker Patriots and then went to the Cleveland Browns and then was sitting behind Jimmy Graham. He finally gets to start for the Saints and he puts up pretty good numbers again. That's probably because of Drew Brees of course, but the point with my list was that these weren't bottom of the barrel players he's used. He's had high to good picks in the draft for receivers to work with like Manning. I say this as a person who prefers Brady to Manning because I feel his offensive circumstances were overall less favorable than Peyton's, but pretending he made all his receivers is a bit much. A great QB elevates his players, and Aaron Rodgers elevated bad to mediocre this past year.

Isn't that my point though? Maybe I am just confused at this point.

[The JareBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yazan Gable

Randy Moss was on the mid 2000s Raiders. That is like football purgatory. If he went to any decent quarterback situation he would have been dominant. Wes Welker was still Wes Welker with Manning his first year and then the concussions took their toll on him. Wes Welker had declining Peyton Manning and was just on the Rams while everyone knows he should stop playing. Ben Watson was on the Randy Moss/Wes Welker Patriots and then went to the Cleveland Browns and then was sitting behind Jimmy Graham. He finally gets to start for the Saints and he puts up pretty good numbers again. That's probably because of Drew Brees of course, but the point with my list was that these weren't bottom of the barrel players he's used. He's had high to good picks in the draft for receivers to work with like Manning. I say this as a person who prefers Brady to Manning because I feel his offensive circumstances were overall less favorable than Peyton's, but pretending he made all his receivers is a bit much. A great QB elevates his players, and Aaron Rodgers elevated bad to mediocre this past year.

Also, I don't think just being a high draft pick, alone, makes a player good.