Madden NFL 17 Video - Player Regression and Menus (MoonlightSwami)

[Jr.]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Valid point. From a purely video game standpoint, the game needs some sort of mechanism to encourage the user and CPU to draft new players, as opposed to just signing mid-level free agents every year. Most sports games currently go the early regression route; if you don't put up some level of stats, you lose ability. Thinking about it, as far as I know no sports game quantitatively captures the value of potential / a player's ability to improve in its OVR formula; maybe they should? Should a Madden player's development trait and age be components of his OVR rating? I could see on one hand how artificially inflating OVR for younger players with more ability to improve could make CPU roster management more realistic - cut older players who don't produce and progress just by nature of getting older - but on the other hand it doesn't necessarily represent a player's skills as truly as possible, which is the entire purpose of the OVR rating. Thoughts?

Part of it is the focus on ratings instead of stats. If the ratings were more focused on being an indication of production rather than the reason for production, I think that would help. Have them fluctuate like they do now, but have actual ratings that are under the hood that actually drive the gameplay and sim engines.

Your second point I hinted at. I don't really agree with how any game that I've played handles progression/regression. I think the idea behind ratings is the problem for that. If you think in a meta-way about what video game ratings are, they're just an interpretation of production. I understand that games need math-based algorithms to operate, so numbers are needed. That's why I would like them to have those hidden with the exception of physical ratings (speed, strength, throw power, etc.), while showing ratings that are based on the players' statistical production for everything else.

So this system of having guys regress after a poor year would actually make sense. Their production has dropped, so their perceived abilities have dropped. The underlying ratings that are driving the sim and gameplay engines can stay hidden and progress/regress randomly or based on work ethic/injury history or whatever.

My entire problem with how this game works is that player abilities change after production, instead of changing and causing the production. It's completely backwards. It may be best for a RPG-element within the game, but I simply disagree with the decision to turn this into a RPG-style system.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

From a purely video game standpoint, the game needs some sort of mechanism to encourage the user and CPU to draft new players, as opposed to just signing mid-level free agents every year.

How about using a realistic model of regression. There should be enough incentive to replace with younger players knowing the 29yo won't get any better.

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Thinking about it, as far as I know no sports game quantitatively captures the value of potential / a player's ability to improve in its OVR formula; maybe they should? Should a Madden player's development trait and age be components of his OVR rating?

Would this artificially inflate a players salary?

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I could see on one hand how artificially inflating OVR for younger players with more ability to improve could make CPU roster management more realistic - cut older players who don't produce and progress just by nature of getting older - but on the other hand it doesn't necessarily represent a player's skills as truly as possible, which is the entire purpose of the OVR rating.

You really don't need to inflate the OVR to do this for CPU controlled teams. A smarter roster management AI could do the same kind of calculation for player cuts w/o inflating the OVR.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jr.

Part of it is the focus on ratings instead of stats. If the ratings were more focused on being an indication of production rather than the reason for production, I think that would help. Have them fluctuate like they do now, but have actual ratings that are under the hood that actually drive the gameplay and sim engines. Your second point I hinted at. I don't really agree with how any game that I've played handles progression/regression. I think the idea behind ratings is the problem for that. If you think in a meta-way about what video game ratings are, they're just an interpretation of production. I understand that games need math-based algorithms to operate, so numbers are needed. That's why I would like them to have those hidden with the exception of physical ratings (speed, strength, throw power, etc.), while showing ratings that are based on the players' statistical production for everything else. So this system of having guys regress after a poor year would actually make sense. Their production has dropped, so their perceived abilities have dropped. The underlying ratings that are driving the sim and gameplay engines can stay hidden and progress/regress randomly or based on work ethic/injury history or whatever. My entire problem with how this game works is that player abilities change after production, instead of changing and causing the production. It's completely backwards. It may be best for a RPG-element within the game, but I simply disagree with the decision to turn this into a RPG-style system.

I've been praying for a separation of actual hidden ratings and shown perceived ratings for a LONG TIME. Whether the perceived ratings are a letter grade, number range, or an inaccurate number, I don't really care. As long as they are not used for simming and actual gameplay. I like pretty much everything in your post.

[Datninja619]

At least we can clearly see why X player is dinged points. It could alter how you play with the player also. In the scenario with Mariota, I'd try to run more or keep passes short to prevent further decline.

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[Datninja619]

Also I'm certain most of the gripes people are having with the regression system at this point can be worked. Regression starting at a certain age for certain positions for example.
Hopefully with enough positive input on this site, they'll be able to get it as perfect as it can be this year.

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[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by DeuceDouglas

I like how Breeland regressed based simply on a "bad year" LOL. I do like that you can now see how much and why a player regresses but it just confirms to me how poorly of a system progression and regression is. The static nature is horrible IMO, seemed like every player that hits 30 regresses the exact same with extremely small variation. I also wonder why the user had pretty much his entire team regress and when he went to the Steelers they didn't even have one player that showed regression. Maybe because they were in the playoffs I'm guessing.

Imo, they should be using injuries/injury history/wear n tear to frame a logical regression storyline for players. There are other elements that can be mixed in too but I won't bother with a wishlist, just saying whenever they expand the current injury system, that should heavily influence regression and less of an influence based on stats and age.

[howboutdat]

Quote: Originally Posted by Datninja619

Also I'm certain most of the gripes people are having with the regression system at this point can be worked. Regression starting at a certain age for certain positions for example. Hopefully with enough positive input on this site, they'll be able to get it as perfect as it can be this year. Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk

In all fairness, We have been taking issue with the way regression has been handled, i believe since madden 25.They still dont seem to get it. I mean, we hope they will, but its not looking like they do .

[DeuceDouglas]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Imo, they should be using injuries/injury history/wear n tear to frame a logical regression storyline for players. There are other elements that can be mixed in too but I won't bother with a wishlist, just saying whenever they expand the current injury system, that should heavily influence regression and less of an influence based on stats and age.

Totally agree. And with that, if they ever were able to get physical ratings like agility, acceleration, speed, etc. to play out realistically within gameplay I think they could use regression models around those and other physical attributes to do a good job of portraying regression due to age. Certain positions wouldn't be affected as much by it (which makes sense) and it wouldn't just be a mainly static drop across the board on a number of attributes to try and emulate age regression.

But to your point about injuries, I think they've got a decent start from what I saw with QB's getting sacked too much having their injury reduced and they could do the same for RB's getting tons of carries and other similar scenarios. But like you said, the current injury system is too shallow to allow for something highly realistic in that regard or in like what you mentioned with a logical storyline regression due to injuries.