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Old 10-03-2016, 02:48 PM   #9
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Re: Rant with a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturzinator
EA adds these new features, like the fake FGs, strip sacks, and kick blocks, then goes out of their way- and completely out of statistical and logical reality- to show you they're there.
This topic was created out of CPU usage of a fake FG, so let's focus on that. How many have you had happen to you? I'm specifically interested in the ratio of fakes to games played showing that they are programmed to run at an extraordinarily high rate.
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Old 10-03-2016, 02:49 PM   #10
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Re: Rant with a question

I had the CPU pull a fake FG on me (only 1 time so far in probably 50 or so played games)

It was about 1 minute to go in the 2nd quarter just before half time. I (Pats) was losing 7-10

They (Cardinals) were 4th and 8 on the 40. I figured they would pooch punt it to me or kick the FG. They chose FG, so I picked a regular field goal block play...

Suddenly their backup just bombed it down the field for a 30 yard pass and a 1st down and voila! They were in the red zone.

Oddly enough they I stopped them in the red zone and they.... kicked a field goal... with 3 seconds left.

Oh well, live and learn. Call FG Safe when under 2 minutes against the CPU going forward or you think they will pull that.
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:08 PM   #11
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Re: Rant with a question

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Originally Posted by Devildog Frank
I would completely agree, but not with :40 left in the game, up by 17 pts, and the opponent has no time outs left. In football that would be considered intentionally running up the score.
Oh it absolutely would be running up the score, I agree. Running up the score does happen on occasion in the NFL though, ex. the 2007 New England Patriots.
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:15 PM   #12
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Re: Rant with a question

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Originally Posted by Devildog Frank
This is not an Impression, or a Glitch/Bug. I have bought Madden Football every year since it first came out in 1989, and at 57 years old I keep hoping that one year they get it right, before I die, or am too old to play this game. I'm the Bucs, down 26 to 9 to the Falcons in an offline CFM game, and I have no time outs left. There are 40 seconds left in the game, and the Falcons are at my 35 yd line, 4th down 8 yds to go. The Falcons line up for a FG, and fake it, throwing a TD. WTF! and WHY? Any reasonable football fan, coach, player or ******** monkey would assume that the Falcons would either kick the FG, run the ball, or simply TAKE A KNEE. After all these years with this game, my question always has been and will be, who the hell is programming the play calling for this game? And do they have people with actual knowledge of football that are assisting with the programming? What I just experienced is something I would expect to see in an ARCADE FOOTBALL type game, not SIM TYPE FOOTBALL.
I could see the actual logic behind that call.

Even though the chance of a 17 point comeback is very small it's not invalid to decide that you don't want to give your opponent the ball back even with just 40 seconds and no timeouts. That seems to be the logic behind this.

Let's examine the possible alternatives:

1. Punt - from the 35 there's a good chance of only netting a 15 yard punt or possibly giving up a big return.
2. Go for it with a traditional play - almost certainly a pass which risks an int/return.
3. Kick a fg - still up by 3 scores and a missed kick gives you the ball at the spot of the kick
4. Kneel on it/run up the middle - no real benefit for the offense. Might as well just punt it out the back of the endzone.
5. Fake FG - low chance of a turnover/return, if it fails the ball is at the ~35, better than a missed FG attempt and only marginally worse than a punt.

To sum it up it's a low risk/moderate return proposition. Not something you'd expect to see regularly but then again we see weird/head scratching decisions in real NFL games every week.
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:21 PM   #13
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Re: Rant with a question

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Originally Posted by Sturzinator
I challenge you to provide one example of where this type of play call was made in a similar situation anywhere in the real world.
Even if a real-world example of this play does exist - it probably doesn't - I honestly do not care to find it.

It is a video game. Reality gets abandoned to an extent the moment I pick up the controller.

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We need strong voices to demand improvement in the game and long overdue fixes to legacy issues. Stop being an enabler of perpetual mediocrity.
let's not make this thread an indictment of the Madden community, that's off-topic.

Of the list of criticisms I personally have with the game, legacy or not, this doesn't even register. I would much rather have a game where these sorts of fake FG decisions could possibly happen as opposed to one where the CPU would never attempt a fake field goal in situations where where they hold a significant lead or late-game situations. And really, this isn't a rampant problem at all; I've seen one CPU fake field goal and punt each in the many games of Madden 17 I've played.

Heck it's not even that much of a stretch to reason away the fake FG decision - the CPU presumably guessed that the user would come in hard for the block knowing that that's the only way the user can get back into the game, so they call a fake as to drive the nail into the coffin. Aggressive as all hell? Absolutely, but it's not a tremendous leap of logic to make.
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:29 PM   #14
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Re: Rant with a question

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Originally Posted by Sturzinator
. I challenge you to provide one example of where this type of play call was made in a similar situation anywhere in the real world.
The Doug Flutie drop kick play comes to mind. Not exactly the same situation but there was no real logic behind it except for having a bit of fun. The idea that Madden would incorporate something like that is really great, IMO, so long as it's reasonably rare.

Of course the problem with it being so rare is that it's likely to be mistaken as a bug.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:36 PM   #15
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Re: Rant with a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMan
This topic was created out of CPU usage of a fake FG, so let's focus on that. How many have you had happen to you? I'm specifically interested in the ratio of fakes to games played showing that they are programmed to run at an extraordinarily high rate.

My original point was more about the AI play calling late in the game. It just so happens the play call was the fake FG. It has always been a sore spot and IMO has yet again regressed for M17. It was better in the last two years and took a step back again this year.

No NFL OC makes that play call in that situation and expects to keep his job.

I won't speak to the personal observed frequency of the kick blocks or fakes, as I have yet to see these as a problem. There have, however, been several threads in the past about these occurring much more frequently than one would statistically expect. Maybe it was subdued post tuner?

What I can tell you is that I have yet to play a single game where there is not at least one strip sack for either side, often returned for a TD. This is way overblown. EA has taken an uncommon "oh wow" moment and made it an every game mundane occurrence. It's to the point where I go into each game expecting to see 1-3 of these happen throughout.

It is as bothersome to see the CPU QB fumble it as it is my own.

Hopefully it will get patched up.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:40 PM   #16
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Re: Rant with a question

"It is a video game. Reality gets abandoned to an extent the moment I pick up the controller."



I get it, but I do expect a representation of NFL football. I didn't buy the game expecting some alternate reality quasi football facsimile.

No indictment on the community. This contributions and insights of this community are the only things that make this game playable year after year.

Last edited by Sturzinator; 10-03-2016 at 04:46 PM.
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