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Am I the only one who thinks EXP should be based on coaching, not stats?

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Old 10-25-2016, 05:56 AM   #1
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Am I the only one who thinks EXP should be based on coaching, not stats?

There are two problems with the current player development system.

1. It pushes players to go stat hunting rather than playing football.

2. It isn't all that realistic. A player usually REGRESSES after he has his best statistical season, primarily because of regression to the mean, but also because usually a player has their best season when they've been experienced enough that they really understand the game, which usually means they are on the precipice of physical decline (since they've been playing long enough to grasp all the subtleties of their position).

It is my humble opinion that two things should be changed. First, coordinators and position coaches need to be revived. Second, player development needs to be a function of position coach, coordinator and head coach modifiers and of the player's own development traits.

There could certainly be variance tied to how the team is doing: for example players who zone out or lose confidence might not improve even with quality coaching. And assistant coaches overalls could fluctuate based on how the team does (say you go 4-12 and have a very bad offense: then maybe your offensive assistant coaches drop a bit in player development).


But chasing statistics to improve players is just not the best way this can be done. Make the game more realistic by returning position coaches/coordinators, and make them more than just a ratings increase. Make them integral to player development.
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Old 10-25-2016, 07:58 AM   #2
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks EXP should be based on coaching, not stats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
There are two problems with the current player development system.

1. It pushes players to go stat hunting rather than playing football.

2. It isn't all that realistic. A player usually REGRESSES after he has his best statistical season, primarily because of regression to the mean, but also because usually a player has their best season when they've been experienced enough that they really understand the game, which usually means they are on the precipice of physical decline (since they've been playing long enough to grasp all the subtleties of their position).

It is my humble opinion that two things should be changed. First, coordinators and position coaches need to be revived. Second, player development needs to be a function of position coach, coordinator and head coach modifiers and of the player's own development traits.

There could certainly be variance tied to how the team is doing: for example players who zone out or lose confidence might not improve even with quality coaching. And assistant coaches overalls could fluctuate based on how the team does (say you go 4-12 and have a very bad offense: then maybe your offensive assistant coaches drop a bit in player development).


But chasing statistics to improve players is just not the best way this can be done. Make the game more realistic by returning position coaches/coordinators, and make them more than just a ratings increase. Make them integral to player development.
Completely agree. The whole XP progression thing is nonsense.

EA seems to think life is like a game of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons - find the treasure and become a better wizard/paladin etc. And gamers raised on World of Warcraft seem to think this is acceptable.

What makes players actually better is a combination of playing time, film study, training camp, and of course skilled coaching as you point out.

Madden cannot be regarded as a serious simulation of sport while it carries on with this "score a TD and get XP" silliness.

If a single programmer over at decent management game Front Office Football 7 can manage a realistic training and progression system then so can EA.

Or of course they could look at the brilliant and very successful Football Manager franchise (huge soccer simulator) which has a realistic player progression model.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:12 AM   #3
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks EXP should be based on coaching, not stats?

Please someone tell me I am wrong if so, but I saw somewhere on here (dang, can't find the quote) that the Coaches union states that coaches cannot have ratings??


So until that changes (if true), then this great idea can't happen.


But yes, I would love to see ratings on coaches (like discipline, chemistry, play calling etc) and badges too (defensive Guru, QB whisperer), and have their ratings impact player development (a lot of players only blossom or bust based on coaching), FA, retention, team chemistry, individual chemistry and to have Coordinators who have lower ratings, but can rise up in a proper coaching carousel.


There should be a coach chemistry type factor/rating too... the more a team changes its coaches, the lower positive impact on the players as they have to keep learning new schemes, but then an incumbent coach (like BB) gets an impact boost for having schemes in place for so long.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:14 AM   #4
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks EXP should be based on coaching, not stats?

And they reaaaaaaaaaalllllly need to fix the current coaching carousel problems for this to work: recycling coaches constantly, and the CPU coaching scheme bug. A great idea like this can be ruined by poorly implemented UI or AI.
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Old 10-25-2016, 10:15 AM   #5
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks EXP should be based on coaching, not stats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geodude
Please someone tell me I am wrong if so, but I saw somewhere on here (dang, can't find the quote) that the Coaches union states that coaches cannot have ratings??


So until that changes (if true), then this great idea can't happen.


But yes, I would love to see ratings on coaches (like discipline, chemistry, play calling etc) and badges too (defensive Guru, QB whisperer), and have their ratings impact player development (a lot of players only blossom or bust based on coaching), FA, retention, team chemistry, individual chemistry and to have Coordinators who have lower ratings, but can rise up in a proper coaching carousel.


There should be a coach chemistry type factor/rating too... the more a team changes its coaches, the lower positive impact on the players as they have to keep learning new schemes, but then an incumbent coach (like BB) gets an impact boost for having schemes in place for so long.


I guess technically coaches don't have "ratings", but they do have levels in the game. I'm it sure how that's different than a rating. I dont know, if seems like if you base progression off of just coaches, then teams with the best coaches, would have a significant advantage over teams with lesser coaches in terms of player development. That would be a huge flaw in a 32 man CFM.


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Old 10-25-2016, 10:45 AM   #6
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks EXP should be based on coaching, not stats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
There are two problems with the current player development system.

1. It pushes players to go stat hunting rather than playing football.

2. It isn't all that realistic. A player usually REGRESSES after he has his best statistical season, primarily because of regression to the mean, but also because usually a player has their best season when they've been experienced enough that they really understand the game, which usually means they are on the precipice of physical decline (since they've been playing long enough to grasp all the subtleties of their position).

It is my humble opinion that two things should be changed. First, coordinators and position coaches need to be revived. Second, player development needs to be a function of position coach, coordinator and head coach modifiers and of the player's own development traits.

There could certainly be variance tied to how the team is doing: for example players who zone out or lose confidence might not improve even with quality coaching. And assistant coaches overalls could fluctuate based on how the team does (say you go 4-12 and have a very bad offense: then maybe your offensive assistant coaches drop a bit in player development).


But chasing statistics to improve players is just not the best way this can be done. Make the game more realistic by returning position coaches/coordinators, and make them more than just a ratings increase. Make them integral to player development.
Agree fully. I had to drop out of CFM league that I was doing with some friends because they would stat chase to try and win the different awards for the huge XP boosts. I prefer playing a more realistic style and would miss out on creating the overpowered players due to not chasing stats.

There should be a hidden progression engine for the different players with factors like playing time, coaching, focused individual training that would automatically progress the players.
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:07 AM   #7
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks EXP should be based on coaching, not stats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajungodfather
I guess technically coaches don't have "ratings", but they do have levels in the game. I'm it sure how that's different than a rating. I dont know, if seems like if you base progression off of just coaches, then teams with the best coaches, would have a significant advantage over teams with lesser coaches in terms of player development. That would be a huge flaw in a 32 man CFM.


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Yes, whilst better coaches can make better players, which reflects the true nature of the NFL, for 32 user online CFM you would be forced to create 32 user coaches all with similar ratings.


Levels are based purely on goals/accomplishment, they're not saying this coach is better than that coach at playcalling etc
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:31 AM   #8
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks EXP should be based on coaching, not stats?

Front Office Football does a nice simple system for coaches which EA could easily implement for Madden if they chose to.

It rates all coaches for

1. Player Development
2. Youth Development
3. Player Scouting
4. Interview Ability (for the draft)
5. Motivation
6. Discipline (affects penalty rate)

So as the GM you get to chose which coach to hire based on what sort of skills you think are more important for your coaches.

Linked to this is the fact that Front Office Football uses hidden real ability ratings for all the players. So you have to rely and sometimes trust your coaches as to a players true ability.

A text based management system, written by a one man company, that delivers realism and is somehow light years ahead of Madden...
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