3-4... 4-3.. multiple?

[DSonTL]

I'm looking to finally start my franchise but I can't decided on rather I should go 4-3.. or 3-4... Tampa 2.. Cover 3?? I was hoping to get some of you guys ideas on what scheme to run defensively. I really love the 4-3 and Tampa 2 but I can't seem to get it to work well. So what schemes are you guys using defensively??


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[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by DSonTL

I'm looking to finally start my franchise but I can't decided on rather I should go 4-3.. or 3-4... Tampa 2.. Cover 3?? I was hoping to get some of you guys ideas on what scheme to run defensively. I really love the 4-3 and Tampa 2 but I can't seem to get it to work well. So what schemes are you guys using defensively?? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you want to run the Tampa 2 out of a 43 base, use the DAL playbook and watch NYKia's 3-part Madden 17 Tampa 2 series on Youtube. The series has a great breakdown of how and when to use the various permutations of the cover 2 in this game and there are some great tips on how to make pre-snap adjustments vs. certain sets like bunch and trips that will allow you to run the base defense very well vs. multiple looks.

If you can play one of the LB spots or one of the S spots, you can do some really great stuff out of this scheme.

I learned a lot about the coverage scheme from Kia's videos, and I learned a lot about how well M17 does this scheme. The zone adjustments this year are really amazing and make a Tampa 2 base viable because there are so many different ways you can play it, from the traditional Tampa 2 cloud flat to the bail-first soft squat to the carry concept where the MLB takes the vertical by the #3. There's way more nuance in there than I imagined.

[DSonTL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trojan Man

If you want to run the Tampa 2 out of a 43 base, use the DAL playbook and watch NYKia's 3-part Madden 17 Tampa 2 series on Youtube. The series has a great breakdown of how and when to use the various permutations of the cover 2 in this game and there are some great tips on how to make pre-snap adjustments vs. certain sets like bunch and trips that will allow you to run the base defense very well vs. multiple looks. If you can play one of the LB spots or one of the S spots, you can do some really great stuff out of this scheme. I learned a lot about the coverage scheme from Kia's videos, and I learned a lot about how well M17 does this scheme. The zone adjustments this year are really amazing and make a Tampa 2 base viable because there are so many different ways you can play it, from the traditional Tampa 2 cloud flat to the bail-first soft squat to the carry concept where the MLB takes the vertical by the #3. There's way more nuance in there than I imagined.

I've been watching them. Maybe I need to watch again. I feel like I can't stop a nose bleed in the defense... and I often don't know when to run which play at what time. Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and and keep learning it and marry myself to it. It's exciting but frustrating lol


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[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by DSonTL

I've been watching them. Maybe I need to watch again. I feel like I can't stop a nose bleed in the defense... and I often don't know when to run which play at what time. Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and and keep learning it and marry myself to it. It's exciting but frustrating lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Below are the notes I distilled from watching the video series twice. A couple of things before those notes...

For the Tampa 2, you MUST have a really good front 4 for pass rush purposes. Without that, you will get murdered.

Also, the Tampa 2 will give you a bend but don't break defense, but the thing you have to accept is that you will "bend," giving up shorter completions in favor of limiting longer ones. If you play the MLB, you have to honor your deep responsibility and rally down to shorter routes after the ball is out. The trick is to play it in a fundamentally sound way rather than trying to jump routes and make splash plays.

If you play it fundamentally soundly, and if you have a couple of LBs who can run and hit plus a couple of corner who can press and tackle, you'll be straight.

Lastly, it's NOT a flats defense. The cloud flat will jam the receiver and release to the inside and the soft squat will bail with no jam to limit vertical routes. It's only the hard flat that will look flat first.

With that in mind, there are some good situational tips like using the C2 Carry in the red zone b/c the MLB's drop is shorter, etc. Some of that is below.

Like any D, it has its strengths and weaknesses and so must be mixed with other calls at strategic times. You can't run it 100% of the time. But you can probably run it 60% of the time, maybe a little more, and play it soundly.

Here's my notes:

Preferred base fronts:
* Under: base for run situations
* Over: base for pass situations, leaves A/B gap bubbles susceptible to power run schemes

Special fronts:
* Normal: zone blitzes, yolo blitzes
* Wide 9: stretch stopper

Cover 3 Cloud:
* Hard flat to solo side

Cover 6:
* Mix of quarters and cover 2
* When ball is on the hash, places little stress on the corner in flat zone to short side
* To bracket strong receiving threat w/ corner to single side in flat zone and safety over top
* Quarter flat coverage looks good for TE corner (test)

Cover 9:
* Inverted cover 6 with flat zone corner to receiving strength/trips side
* flat corner in a soft squat not hard flat—will drop rather than jam and redirect as the cover 6 flat corner would
* better vs. trips?

Cover 2 Books:
* DAL: Every cover variation possible
* DET
* NYG
* PIT
* STL
* TB

Cover 3 Books:
* ATL
* JAX
* SEA

Mixed:
* CIN
* MIN

Specific Play and Coverage Notes:

Tampa 2: Deep sideline to flat coverage, NOT flat coverage
* Cloud flat obstructs release, funnels WR inward toward S
* Vert hook matches vertical seam, rally to underneath plays second; late to rally down if no vertical threat
* Mid read by MLB
* For trips, spotlight #2 WR matched on vertical hook zone for extra depth/carry on vertical routes
* Can create trap coverages by routing flat zone CB to a deep 2 and a deep S to a hard flat (for playmaking S)
* 3rd or 4th and 10 or less

Cover 2 Sink:
* Soft squat by CB will have CB bail and not contest release; can pattern match if no other threat is present; vs. vertical will prioritize vertical route
* Longer than 3rd or 4th and 10
* Good vs. corner routes (smash)

Cover 2 Carry:
* Cloud flat CB assignment
* Traditional cover 2 w/ MLB in shallower zone than Tampa 2; 3 REC hook assignment for MLB
* MLB will match 3rd receiver on a vertical route
* 3rd and 4-5 defense
* Red zone D
* Good vs. slants, Texas, Mesh

Cover 2 Hard Flat:
* MLB has Tampa 2 run through
* Good vs. shallow crossers (mesh)

Cover 2 Drop:
* Soft squat assignment can convert to man vs. certain alignments

Overload 3, Show 2 (Dime Normal):
* Good sack/fumble inducer

DAL-Specific Formation Notes

43 Over:
* Cover 3 Match here, not in other 43 sets in DAL

Quarters 3 Deep:
* Cover 1 contain: Great for man coverage + 2 robber S for 3rd and 5, inside the red zone

[DSonTL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trojan Man

Below are the notes I distilled from watching the video series twice. A couple of things before those notes... For the Tampa 2, you MUST have a really good front 4 for pass rush purposes. Without that, you will get murdered. Also, the Tampa 2 will give you a bend but don't break defense, but the thing you have to accept is that you will "bend," giving up shorter completions in favor of limiting longer ones. If you play the MLB, you have to honor your deep responsibility and rally down to shorter routes after the ball is out. The trick is to play it in a fundamentally sound way rather than trying to jump routes and make splash plays. If you play it fundamentally soundly, and if you have a couple of LBs who can run and hit plus a couple of corner who can press and tackle, you'll be straight. Lastly, it's NOT a flats defense. The cloud flat will jam the receiver and release to the inside and the soft squat will bail with no jam to limit vertical routes. It's only the hard flat that will look flat first. With that in mind, there are some good situational tips like using the C2 Carry in the red zone b/c the MLB's drop is shorter, etc. Some of that is below. Like any D, it has its strengths and weaknesses and so must be mixed with other calls at strategic times. You can't run it 100% of the time. But you can probably run it 60% of the time, maybe a little more, and play it soundly. Here's my notes: Preferred base fronts: * Under: base for run situations * Over: base for pass situations, leaves A/B gap bubbles susceptible to power run schemes Special fronts: * Normal: zone blitzes, yolo blitzes * Wide 9: stretch stopper Cover 3 Cloud: * Hard flat to solo side Cover 6: * Mix of quarters and cover 2 * When ball is on the hash, places little stress on the corner in flat zone to short side * To bracket strong receiving threat w/ corner to single side in flat zone and safety over top * Quarter flat coverage looks good for TE corner (test) Cover 9: * Inverted cover 6 with flat zone corner to receiving strength/trips side * flat corner in a soft squat not hard flat—will drop rather than jam and redirect as the cover 6 flat corner would * better vs. trips? Cover 2 Books: * DAL: Every cover variation possible * DET * NYG * PIT * STL * TB Cover 3 Books: * ATL * JAX * SEA Mixed: * CIN * MIN Specific Play and Coverage Notes: Tampa 2: Deep sideline to flat coverage, NOT flat coverage * Cloud flat obstructs release, funnels WR inward toward S * Vert hook matches vertical seam, rally to underneath plays second; late to rally down if no vertical threat * Mid read by MLB * For trips, spotlight #2 WR matched on vertical hook zone for extra depth/carry on vertical routes * Can create trap coverages by routing flat zone CB to a deep 2 and a deep S to a hard flat (for playmaking S) * 3rd or 4th and 10 or less Cover 2 Sink: * Soft squat by CB will have CB bail and not contest release; can pattern match if no other threat is present; vs. vertical will prioritize vertical route * Longer than 3rd or 4th and 10 * Good vs. corner routes (smash) Cover 2 Carry: * Cloud flat CB assignment * Traditional cover 2 w/ MLB in shallower zone than Tampa 2; 3 REC hook assignment for MLB * MLB will match 3rd receiver on a vertical route * 3rd and 4-5 defense * Red zone D * Good vs. slants, Texas, Mesh Cover 2 Hard Flat: * MLB has Tampa 2 run through * Good vs. shallow crossers (mesh) Cover 2 Drop: * Soft squat assignment can convert to man vs. certain alignments Overload 3, Show 2 (Dime Normal): * Good sack/fumble inducer DAL-Specific Formation Notes 43 Over: * Cover 3 Match here, not in other 43 sets in DAL Quarters 3 Deep: * Cover 1 contain: Great for man coverage + 2 robber S for 3rd and 5, inside the red zone

Dude this is great! Thanks! But here's my problem... maybe this is Football for dummies for me... hash marks? How does that work? And the over front seems wrong... the articles I've read on the over front doesn't have the WILL on the LOS... Also do you keep auto formation flip on? I have a lot of questions lol because I want to perfect this defense. I usually almost on play 4-3 under against 2 WR personnel... and nickel and dime situationally. I've never paid much attention to hash marks. But I really want to get right defensively.


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[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by DSonTL

Dude this is great! Thanks! But here's my problem... maybe this is Football for dummies for me... hash marks? How does that work? And the over front seems wrong... the articles I've read on the over front doesn't have the WILL on the LOS... Also do you keep auto formation flip on? I have a lot of questions lol because I want to perfect this defense. I usually almost on play 4-3 under against 2 WR personnel... and nickel and dime situationally. I've never paid much attention to hash marks. But I really want to get right defensively. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The hash marks are found in the middle of the field. When the ball is on the right or left hash mark, the offense will come to the LOS and will not be lined up in the exact middle of the field.

The spot placement of the spot depends on the previous play.

When the ball is spotted on one of the hash marks, it means there's less territory to cover on the short side of the field. In this case, running a cover 6 with the flat zone on the short side of the field can be an effective way of hemming in a WR with great vertical skills, as it shrinks the window that the over the top S has to cover to choke off the vertical route.

So there are times when you want to let the spot of the ball inform your play call.

As for the fronts, all those notes do is distill what Kia said in his videos.

He does an extensive breakdown of why the under front is more sound vs. the run. The over front essentially doesn't place the strong side MLB and OLB in optimal run fits. It's more a good front for some blitzes.

I do use auto-flip, but if I don't like the look coming to the LOS, I'll re-flip it myself so I get the look I want. Most of the time, auto-flip works well.

[DSonTL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trojan Man

The hash marks are found in the middle of the field. When the ball is on the right or left hash mark, the offense will come to the LOS and will not be lined up in the exact middle of the field. The spot placement of the spot depends on the previous play. When the ball is spotted on one of the hash marks, it means there's less territory to cover on the short side of the field. In this case, running a cover 6 with the flat zone on the short side of the field can be an effective way of hemming in a WR with great vertical skills, as it shrinks the window that the over the top S has to cover to choke off the vertical route. So there are times when you want to let the spot of the ball inform your play call. As for the fronts, all those notes do is distill what Kia said in his videos. He does an extensive breakdown of why the under front is more sound vs. the run. The over front essentially doesn't place the strong side MLB and OLB in optimal run fits. It's more a good front for some blitzes. I do use auto-flip, but if I don't like the look coming to the LOS, I'll re-flip it myself so I get the look I want. Most of the time, auto-flip works well.

Sounds like I'll be labbing some Tampa 2 tonight. So basically if the offense is tackled say on the right side of the field.. then the Ball will be set on the right hash mark?


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