After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Yeah, I'll just drop a few quotes from Clint Oldenburg, a game developer on Madden from a few weeks ago that keeps on being brought up periodically. Someone on Twitter asked him if DPP(Dynamic Player Performance) was still in the game: Ah. No, that doesn't exist. The only things that can change ratings during a game are fatigue and the 'Clutch' trait. Next question: What about "momentum"? Are shifts in the game just the result of random distribution of dice rolls? Big debate in our league No momentum. Random dice rolls, think of them like roulette. Fatigue also has a bit more impact than assumed as well.

Post #4 in this thread.

[cable guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

The Falcons discovered the same rubberband AI in the SB as Madden does. I'm only speaking from an All-Pro perspective, but I've heard the same goes for All Madden with all the sliders left where they should be and everything turned on, but, if the CPU tries to mount a comeback, I just turn on the gas like the Patriots do. The Patriots don't play conservative and neither do I. PA passes, counters and mixing up all the plays on offense and defense works.

Or the AI cheating factor of the Packers, getting a very unrealistic 3rd and a mile, too accurate a throw, super over the top rediculous sideline catch, 1st down conversion. AI refused to lose.... Sorry had to go there once Road lol

Anyway, about All-Pro. I don't see these things. But I wanted to mention, I did have a couple issues on All-Madden. Adjusted sliders. One game in paticular, had 2 blocked punts in one game. But this was in November, before latest patch obviously. Point being, these current issues sound like AM. Where the game has to present an over the top challenge. I had one Punt and One FG blocked in about 25 games using A&S latest patch sliders. All-Pro. I just don't see it.

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[cable guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by GoBigRed29

Something I've noticed in the last 4 games. Each time I went up 2 touchdowns, either 14-0 or 21-7, the CPU scored on a long play either immediately following my TD or the play directly after. Could just be coincidence but to happen 4 times in a row...

The CPU does seem more competitive. It was harder to blow some teams out. That I thought I should have. But from my perspective, I ran a very vanilla Defense. Mainly cover 1. Some cover 2. CPU did adjust to a certain extent. Either that or my Defense was weak. And had key injuries as well. When on offense, I tried to push for a blowout, ending in some careless INTS or sacks.

Quote: Originally Posted by GoBigRed29

Ya I know, not a conspiracy theory, just curious. 2 were kickreturns for TD, 1 run play, he broke 3 tackles to take it to the house, and a long bomb where he broke 2 to get it.

This stuff, I have not seen on All-Pro.

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[HUSTLER_79]

Quote:

Or the AI cheating factor of the Packers, getting a very unrealistic 3rd and a mile, too accurate a throw, super over the top rediculous sideline catch, 1st down conversion. AI refused to lose

Its like you read my mind lol

Just got out a game i was up all game vs the packers 17-3 to lose the game ...that one was exactly like you said
Over the top one hand catches in double coverage lol
That was just dirty thats not sim anymore ! All this happens in combination with flags being thrown on my big plays ...

One word : UNFAIR

[muktownballer33]

Honestly, I think this whole issue is more of a programming/animation issue than anything else. In the years and years I've played Madden there is no question the quality of the game has improved, but the frustrations have never gone away.

Being a Packers fan I love the example of the Rodgers to Cook catch in last year's playoffs. There seems to be a disconnect though in how Madden translates that kind of experience to the video game world. We see plays like the pass to Cook or Beckham's one hander against the Cowboys and can't believe our eyes. Just being fans of the sport they get you excited and it's believable because you saw it with your own eyes. Lynch's 30 broken tackles against the Saints also comes to mind. We all want those kinds of experiences in Madden.

The amount of animations and the way they are triggered in Madden just isn't where it needs to be yet. I've tried every slider set/play style posted on this site and these problems never seem to go away. You can limit them, but every single game it happens. It's almost the video game equivalent of the uncanny valley. We know it's possible, but it just doesn't look right when it happens in game.

Last night I was playing a game that was going really well, and then the insane "tip ball into air 15 yards interception" animations started happening. Followed by my QB (Wentz) overthrowing a wide open receiver 10 yards in front of him by 15 yards straight into a DB's hands. (This has happened to me with Rodgers as well so it's not just the ratings)

Overall I think people want to love this game. It's 85% there from a gameplay perspective. But it doesn't have enough "levels" in animations to accurately interpret the way things happen on Sunday. Not to mention the ball physics outside of an animation are just awful.

I can cut the development team a little slack because the number of animations/interactions that happen on a football field are VASTLY different than what you see in other sports. But when you play other games like The Show which improve each and every year and "feel" like you are watching a real game, it makes the disconnection Madden has with the real thing feel much more apparent. Maybe if they spent more time on the "game" rather than 45 different versions of Ezekiel Elliott in MUT we could get there, but that is a whole different discussion.

That's just my 2 cents on the subject. I'm sure I have a few broken controllers laying around over the years that would agree with me haha.

[montesixpac]

I have posted a couple times in here with what I have found. I feel like I'm whining by posting about this, but really I am mostly curious if there is a trend or something that specifically causes this to happen.

I am all for crazy comebacks by the cpu, but I do not enjoy it when it is overly consistent. I still think a lot of it is the CPU being more aggressive, but I'd say it goes beyond that.

In my second season I just finished my 3rd game with the Lions. The first game I won and the Steelers never went away even though I ended up winning by a couple scores and there really wasn't anything about that game that felt unrealistic, but it was also a win for me. They were tough to stop all game and it ended up a high scoring affair.

The second game I lost late helped by a number of things including multiple times losing control of my player on their game winning drive and the ensuing kickoff.

The third game was a great game all along. Tied 13 to 13 late against the Packers. I was pretty much controlling the game despite it being tied. I was moving the ball and stuffing their offense. I drove down while running the clock and with less than 3:00 to go I was in FG range on 4th down and sure enough it was blocked and returned for a TD. Well, I still had time and it was only a one score game. So, what happens? I start moving the ball down the field and BAM! fumble picked up by them and returned for a TD and now there is only about a minute left and I am down 14.

Games like this happen, but I really cannot stand it being the constant. I like losing games because I want it to be a challenge, but I sure wish it didn't always happen this way.

[roadman]

Monte;

The notion of comeback code, rubberband AI, etc.... has been refuted by the development team before this team and this development team.

It's their word vs your personal beliefs at this point.

[NinersFan49]

I vote with Monty on this one. Just the ridiculous number and timing of blocked kicks returned for TDs mentioned in this topic alone show that something is wrong. How often do they happen irl? And just because the second greatest QB (imo) in history led a super bowl comeback against a suspect defense doesn’t mean it’s realistic when any scrub in All-Madden can go into robo QB mode any time he wants to.

The developers aren’t going to say there are scripted outcomes, it would look bad for the game. I doubt Clint has close enough knowledge of the code to know first hand, he’s probably just passing on what he’s been told.

Muktownballer’s post sounds like a reasonable theory on some of the wonkiness.