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EA Sports Madden 18 Dev Tweets

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Old 03-16-2018, 12:43 AM   #513
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Re: EA Sports Madden 18 Dev Tweets

Quote:
Originally Posted by adembroski
If you ask 15 scouts to rate an NFL player using any ratings system, you'll get 15 different answers. I don't think Kane or Donny do a bad job with ratings given the constraints they have.

Not only that, one of the reasons the ratings system seems off at times is because too many attributes are wrapped up in a single number. It's easy to rate a Rodgers who's plain great at everything, but for a guy like Garoppolo, you can't just say strong arm and leave it at that. He can't heave it 60 yards on a line like Rodgers can, he can't toss it over the moon like Rodgers can, but he can thread the needle in the short area like nobody else. Splitting THP into Range and Velocity would make it easier to rate players because you don't have to figure out where guys like Garoppolo fit on that combined scale.

It gets worse as you look at other positions. MCV... ok, what about a guy who's fantastic at trail technique, but can't stack tech to save his life? ZCV... some guys are fantastic playing deep third, but get lost when asked to play inside hook curl.

Some attributes don't even get represented, and others are confusing. Are you aware that Impact Blocking actually means a ton for linebackers? It's basically the stack-and-shed attribute. How do you represent a guy's ability to navigate trash, some pass blockers have fantastic technique but a weak punch. Sticking with the team I know, Deforest Buckner is one of the most disruptive inside forces in the NFL, but he can't get sacks... because his technique fails him AFTER he's won, and he can't get square to the QB. So he can beat the block, but he can't finish... no way to represent that in Madden.

So, yes, I'd much rather have to trust Kane to use these attributes than not have them. I think it makes his job easier. He doesn't have figure out the precise way to compromise between two extremes that are represented by the same attribute.
Brother, i hear you...but in order to have what your asking for, the engine would have to change and literally more attention would have to be paid to individual players on a scale that mimicks what the roster makers in the MLB show are doing. Its tedious and really is more work than I believe EA team is prepared to do. As it is now, it is what it is. We get a numerical value that is tied to a rating that may or may not be of any use. My biggest issue sometime is...what is the real difference between a 91 and 93 ACC athlete. Nothing. Its ludacris unless you manipulate the parity a whole lot. Now...separate that value by 5 points increments...that would certainly make a difference. 80, 85, 90, 95 ect...just some things I think about fellas. I may be wrong and the masses might be elsewhere. Either way, we all know there is something wrong with "status quo"...we all agree something else needs to happen and its about 10 years to old.
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Old 03-16-2018, 01:09 PM   #514
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Re: EA Sports Madden 18 Dev Tweets

Quote:
Originally Posted by adembroski
What you're actually seeing with Jackson is a footwork problem. He doesn't open his lead foot to the receiver as much as he should, and his hips don't turn through the throw, and thus his upper body can't turn as far as it wants too. This means he has to over extend his shoulder and his wrist follow through is exaggerated. It costs him velocity and accuracy on deep passes. Garoppolo has a very similar problem. CM Hooe sent me a really cool video breakdown of Garoppolo's issue, I'll try to remember to post it later when I get time.

Wrist action is amount of energy transferred from the last fulcrum before the throw. Your feet, legs, hips, core, shoulder, and elbow create initial velocity, but your wrist creates spin. Spin reduces deceleration in the air by moving air rather than allowing it to build up in front of the football. If you think of air as a piece of wood and a football as a drillbit, the QBs "arm strength" is the pressure the user is applying to the drill, while the wrist action is the spin of the drill bit.

EDIT: Here's that video. It says everything I've said about Garoppolo but with visual aid and he understands it better than I do, so he explains it better too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymIOgCfa9pY&t=29s
Thanks, I'll watch the video when I get home. But in the meantime, I would like to clarify something.

I noticed his poor footwork. I described it to a friend like this in response to him saying analysts were just nitpicking:
"His arm does too much of the work when he throws. I've seen him throw when his front foot is almost directly under his chin. When you watch a guy with good footwork throw, what happens is he kinda plants his back foot, puts his front foot forward, then turns his hips and shifts his body weight to that front foot; this is what gives you the velocity. That's why Lamar's passes flutter. Did you watch him at the combine on youtube? And I think that is why his passes kind of sail on him, he flips his wrist kinda like how you do when you shoot a free throw. He does too much of this (motions with my hand)"

I quoted myself almost word for word because I want to make sure I wasn't giving out misinformation. I described it accurately right? He is trying to compensate for bad footwork by doing "too much" with his arm/wrist?

But when a scout says wrist action they are talking about something at a specific singular moment in the throwing motion. Lamar does bad things with his wrists during his throwing motion, but its a byproduct of poor footwork instead of a separate "wrist action" issue, is that right?

(I know this is terribly off topic but its not exactly Madden's busy season )
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:46 PM   #515
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Re: EA Sports Madden 18 Dev Tweets

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBetty15
Brother, i hear you...but in order to have what your asking for, the engine would have to change and literally more attention would have to be paid to individual players on a scale that mimicks what the roster makers in the MLB show are doing. Its tedious and really is more work than I believe EA team is prepared to do. As it is now, it is what it is. We get a numerical value that is tied to a rating that may or may not be of any use. My biggest issue sometime is...what is the real difference between a 91 and 93 ACC athlete. Nothing. Its ludacris unless you manipulate the parity a whole lot. Now...separate that value by 5 points increments...that would certainly make a difference. 80, 85, 90, 95 ect...just some things I think about fellas. I may be wrong and the masses might be elsewhere. Either way, we all know there is something wrong with "status quo"...we all agree something else needs to happen and its about 10 years to old.
I wouldn't blame it on the dev team. They've been begging to rebuild. Management wont let them.

And anyways, no, the engine isn't the problem. I mean, honestly, Madden didn't have an engine until last year. Ignite was literally just a collective name for the same tools they'd been using since '07 with some increased compatibility elements. I'm not sure I'm allowed to tell you that, but at this point, **** 'em.

There's no artificial limitations imposed on Madden because of it's "engine," whatever someone means by that. Engine just refers to any unifying collection of code that manages assets in some way. You can generally add to and remove from engines as easily as coding any other feature.

There is no reason at all they couldn't program trail technique, shade technique, stack technique and any other coverage technique you want to name and even give them all their own individual ratings. There is literally nothing in the "engine" that would prevent this. It would just be really hard, as it'd be really hard to do with any other engine. Those are complex concepts that would require tons of animation work and testing/tuning, not to mention teaching the average ignorant Madden player what they mean and when they should be employed.

So, no, I disagree on both counts.

There's no engine imposed limitations. One comparison between Madden '07 and Madden '17 proves that, those are the same engine. Hell, compare Madden '17 and Madden '18, which DOES have a new engine and there's seriously very little difference in gameplay. Engine is a way overrated concept to people who don't work in the industry.

And the team being too lazy... I'm telling you, they'd love nothing more than to break off a small team to build a couple minor features for Madden 19 and completely rebuild the game for the following year. It is ****ing HARD to work in 12 year old code. They could clean up a ton given the time and resources and make future work a lot easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsimmonds
Thanks, I'll watch the video when I get home. But in the meantime, I would like to clarify something.

I noticed his poor footwork. I described it to a friend like this in response to him saying analysts were just nitpicking:
"His arm does too much of the work when he throws. I've seen him throw when his front foot is almost directly under his chin. When you watch a guy with good footwork throw, what happens is he kinda plants his back foot, puts his front foot forward, then turns his hips and shifts his body weight to that front foot; this is what gives you the velocity. That's why Lamar's passes flutter. Did you watch him at the combine on youtube? And I think that is why his passes kind of sail on him, he flips his wrist kinda like how you do when you shoot a free throw. He does too much of this (motions with my hand)"

I quoted myself almost word for word because I want to make sure I wasn't giving out misinformation. I described it accurately right? He is trying to compensate for bad footwork by doing "too much" with his arm/wrist?

But when a scout says wrist action they are talking about something at a specific singular moment in the throwing motion. Lamar does bad things with his wrists during his throwing motion, but its a byproduct of poor footwork instead of a separate "wrist action" issue, is that right?

(I know this is terribly off topic but its not exactly Madden's busy season )
Yeah, your description is pretty much spot on. When scouts say wrist action, they're describing basically how much spin the player is able to produce when he rotates his wrist on release. The more torque you turn your wrist over with as you're releasing the ball, the greater spin you put on it.
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Last edited by adembroski; 03-16-2018 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 03-17-2018, 12:09 AM   #516
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Re: EA Sports Madden 18 Dev Tweets

Quote:
Originally Posted by adembroski
I wouldn't blame it on the dev team. They've been begging to rebuild. Management wont let them.

And anyways, no, the engine isn't the problem. I mean, honestly, Madden didn't have an engine until last year. Ignite was literally just a collective name for the same tools they'd been using since '07 with some increased compatibility elements. I'm not sure I'm allowed to tell you that, but at this point, **** 'em.

There's no artificial limitations imposed on Madden because of it's "engine," whatever someone means by that. Engine just refers to any unifying collection of code that manages assets in some way. You can generally add to and remove from engines as easily as coding any other feature.

There is no reason at all they couldn't program trail technique, shade technique, stack technique and any other coverage technique you want to name and even give them all their own individual ratings. There is literally nothing in the "engine" that would prevent this. It would just be really hard, as it'd be really hard to do with any other engine. Those are complex concepts that would require tons of animation work and testing/tuning, not to mention teaching the average ignorant Madden player what they mean and when they should be employed.

So, no, I disagree on both counts.

There's no engine imposed limitations. One comparison between Madden '07 and Madden '17 proves that, those are the same engine. Hell, compare Madden '17 and Madden '18, which DOES have a new engine and there's seriously very little difference in gameplay. Engine is a way overrated concept to people who don't work in the industry.

And the team being too lazy... I'm telling you, they'd love nothing more than to break off a small team to build a couple minor features for Madden 19 and completely rebuild the game for the following year. It is ****ing HARD to work in 12 year old code. They could clean up a ton given the time and resources and make future work a lot easier.



Yeah, your description is pretty much spot on. When scouts say wrist action, they're describing basically how much spin the player is able to produce when he rotates his wrist on release. The more torque you turn your wrist over with as you're releasing the ball, the greater spin you put on it.
yea, I agree...I guess I should rephrase and say upper management has its priorities going down the wrong path IMO. The team is good and at least works their buns off, I have not been a fan of upper management and the think tank since 360 days
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:36 AM   #517
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Re: EA Sports Madden 18 Dev Tweets

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBetty15
yea, I agree...I guess I should rephrase and say upper management has its priorities going down the wrong path IMO. The team is good and at least works their buns off, I have not been a fan of upper management and the think tank since 360 days
Maybe a bit off-topic, but I think the introduction of Ignite was an attempt by the various EA Sports developers to convince corporate that they already had an engine in an attempt to keep them from imposing Frostbite on them. 4k HDR was achievable without frostbite, but corporate suits ****ing love buzz words.
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:23 AM   #518
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Re: EA Sports Madden 18 Dev Tweets

Quote:
Originally Posted by adembroski
Maybe a bit off-topic, but I think the introduction of Ignite was an attempt by the various EA Sports developers to convince corporate that they already had an engine in an attempt to keep them from imposing Frostbite on them. 4k HDR was achievable without frostbite, but corporate suits ****ing love buzz words.
Ugh...tell me about it man. Thats the problem with having no competition I think as well. Not really from a developer standpoint since I have to believe that they push the envelope to the best of their ability, but for the upper brass to let the devs have more free reign to get out in front of the competition was beneficial to us the consumer. But there are quite a few threads on this so I will stop on that.
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Old 03-17-2018, 11:32 AM   #519
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Re: EA Sports Madden 18 Dev Tweets

You guys are giving me very little hope for 19.
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Old 03-18-2018, 09:09 AM   #520
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Re: EA Sports Madden 18 Dev Tweets

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You guys are giving me very little hope for 19.
It's all about realistic expectations is what i've learned. The game increases incrementally every year, but expecting a totally revamped game in one year usually leads to a let down.
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