Madden 18 equipment info part 2 sports gamer online

[poulka]

@therealsmallville I am not trashing madden, but to me a racing game has much more moving parts than a football, soccer, baseball or soccer game. Such those games are on a non moving area. Racing uses what we call in my gaming class a scrolling area.

Now I get comparing madden to a racing game is like comparing apples to oranges. But to me a racing game has much more variables to content with. A changing racing area, track temperature, tire physics, car components, among many other things.

But it troubles me when look back at the history of madden and we had more features equipment "options" on far inadequate consoles than we do now. People don't like hearing lack of resources and this theme has been repeated for over ten years. It is 2017 and some in these forums has heard this since 2006, like I said above Madden 2003 had all these things people have asked for on a ps2. Fast forward 14 years and these things don't exist. I remember madden 2005 had these and dynamic weather. Like I said I don't trash the game playing it right now love the graphics, but it could on such a higher level than 2K. Basketball is played inside, madden is outside take advantage of changes in light, bring in more equipment. But I don't know.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by poulka

@therealsmallville. Now I believe Kane as well, but I have programming experience. Sideline behaviors don't require much. A if statement here and else if statement there will give you those behaviors.

No, it's really not that simple.

You have a bunch of actors all over the place as Kane mentioned, all of whom individually and asynchronously need to be able to observe the behavior of other actors and react accordingly and separately based on what the event was, the game situation when the event occurred, physical proximity to the event, and physical proximity to other actors. Probably a bunch of other factors as well. On top of that, for players in particular those behaviors probably need to be checked against ratings and maybe individual player IDs (most commonly for things such as player-specific touchdown celebrations).

On top of that, a designer ought to have the ability to create and adjust behaviors via working with a scripting system on top of the client code so that an engineer isn't required to build new behaviors or change existing ones. That requires the engineer or engineers build a toolset which the designer will work with, and it also requires backend code to interpret and run those scripts at a layer which sits decoupled on top of the game. For Madden NFL 10, which had canned cutscenes, this was accomplished with a LUA scripting layer on top of the game's C++ client code, but I have no idea if that's changed since.

You're certainly not getting all that with just a few if-else blocks.

[deu22ces]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

No, it's really not that simple. You have a bunch of actors all over the place as Kane mentioned, all of whom individually and asynchronously need to be able to observe the behavior of other actors and react accordingly and separately based on what the event was, the game situation when the event occurred, physical proximity to the event, and physical proximity to other actors. Probably a bunch of other factors as well. On top of that, for players in particular those behaviors probably need to be checked against ratings and maybe individual player IDs (most commonly for things such as player-specific touchdown celebrations). On top of that, a designer ought to have the ability to create and adjust behaviors via working with a scripting system on top of the client code so that an engineer isn't required to build new behaviors or change existing ones. That requires the engineer or engineers build a toolset which the designer will work with, and it also requires backend code to interpret and run those scripts at a layer which sits decoupled on top of the game. For Madden NFL 10, which had canned cutscenes, this was accomplished with a LUA scripting layer on top of the game's C++ client code, but I have no idea if that's changed since. You're certainly not getting all that with just a few if-else blocks.

That's interesting but he was referring to sideline behavior in his post. Were you referring to that in yours? It didn't sound like it so just asking. The sideline behavior in Madden looks very bare bones to me. It looks 'last gen' even, completely generic, block bodies, with all the 'actors' doing the same thing in unison. The only difference is a coach cut scene but that is a completely different segment, correct?

The in-game itself looks great graphics wise, making the sidelines look that much worse, distracting even.

[poulka]

@due22ces. Exactly that is what I mean. Sideline movement is very bare bones as far as just turning and moving out of players way when they go out of bounds. Hence my code, cameraman turn back and forth, else players move in cameraman moves backwards. Yes cut scenes are different, and they lots of errors too. Play gets hurt you still see him in huddle cut scene. Don't get me wrong I love the cut scenes but make them accurate.

One other thing, I appreciate concerns for the game, but I think I speak for most madden vets. We are not trashing the game, but as vets we want to see the game excel. Some here get real defensive when offer constructive criticism, in my profession they want constant improvement. I think as consumers of madden we want what we see on Sunday that's all.

[Kingd803]

Quote: Originally Posted by poulka

@due22ces. Exactly that is what I mean. Sideline movement is very bare bones as far as just turning and moving out of players way when they go out of bounds. Hence my code, cameraman turn back and forth, else players move in cameraman moves backwards. Yes cut scenes are different, and they lots of errors too. Play gets hurt you still see him in huddle cut scene. Don't get me wrong I love the cut scenes but make them accurate. One other thing, I appreciate concerns for the game, but I think I speak for most madden vets. We are not trashing the game, but as vets we want to see the game excel. Some here get real defensive when offer constructive criticism, in my profession they want constant improvement. I think as consumers of madden we want what we see on Sunday that's all.

Agree. Some people do get very defensive. They have a counter for every gripe about madden. I always go back to this, I'm not asking for something that hasn't been done before. Literally all of my biggest wants for madden have already been done. Either by past maddens or other sports games.


That's sad in its own right. Not only should madden have been added those or similar features. It should be so much further.

That's how far back madden is. My biggest concern is animations. Why does APF2k8 still have QB animations that are almost perfect. That blow maddens out of the water? That game is ten years old? Correct?

Madden is still so clunky that I just can't play it. Player movement looks and feels sonic better on ps2 maddens.

[poulka]

You are right king, the things I want in madden were once in the game. The ps2 game had so much and player movement was excellent. Now in madden the controls are crazy, movement players suction to blockers and would be tacklers. Madden 17would be awesome it had ps2 madden features and gameplay.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by deu22ces

That's interesting but he was referring to sideline behavior in his post. Were you referring to that in yours? It didn't sound like it so just asking. The sideline behavior in Madden looks very bare bones to me. It looks 'last gen' even, completely generic, block bodies, with all the 'actors' doing the same thing in unison. The only difference is a coach cut scene but that is a completely different segment, correct? The in-game itself looks great graphics wise, making the sidelines look that much worse, distracting even.

So one of the things that this forum frequently complains about is characters on the sideline not reacting to events on the field, especially interacting with them. The common example is off-field players moving out of the way of a runner who approaches the sideline or catching a teammate ballcarrier as he runs out of bounds. Other games have done this, Madden hasn't to this point. Making a guy turn left and right is just a static animation and that's already there, as you described. The chain gang and photographers also don't move out of the way of approaching players, and with exception of the end zone camera operator who enters the field following touchdowns I don't think any rendered camera man responds to players on the field.

In fact, right now really the only character who acts in a complex manner on the sideline with respect to what I previously described is the head coach, and that's a recent thing (M16 / M17). The crowd collectively has some behavior as well, at least their audio responding to big plays, breakaway runs, taking more photos during playoff games and the Super Bowl, etc.

There's some stuff there, but there's a long way to go, and my point was that this stuff is not just plug-and-play.

[roadman]

Coaches are suppose to help players up on sideline plays this year.

Rex mentioned that as one of the legacy issues because he told his engineers that 2k had this in the game 10 years ago and that was eating at him.