Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

[vannwolfhawk]

Quote: Originally Posted by deu22ces

ok, so I'm really trying to be 'nice' and 'understanding' of Madden's ratings issues. And I really do appreciate Clint. He's the only Dev I 'follow' as he drops little golden nuggets about ratings if you pay attention. And I know he's not at fault for what happens beyond his scope, but some things I'm hearing are just unbelievable. When he's talking about the pass rusher 'boost' to catch up to a much faster player (14:46). He says it's a "funny story"...that some time ago 'someone' put in a code to give defenders in a pass rush scenario a boost to "unrealistic levels" because of what they "think" was community complaints. It went undetected until they looked at it earlier this year. His exact words were "we weren't aware of that". What?? This is 2 years ago!! This was an employee from this Dev team. They're not "aware" of a change like that? That's self-inflicted sabotage. That alone tells us all we need to know about why ratings are such a stinkin problem in this game. I do not want to hear one more 'excuse' about old legacy issues hampering this game. How is it that in this day and age, there is not a programmers log that is searchable and sortable that shows what type of code was worked on, what the date was, what the purpose was, what change(s) were made, what effect it had on game play. Then, say Clint wants to work on pass blocking, all he has to do is pull up every instance where code that change pass blocking was worked on. Instead it sounds like this free-for-all where anyone can just sit down and tinker with code at will and never tell anyone about it! I feel like what I heard wasn't real. This is where some people talk about leadership and organizational problems at the Dev level. I just simply cannot argue against that thought when I hear things like this. You cannot blame marketing and Execs for failures like that. What he says is happening there is just mind numbingly dumb to me...and certainly not "funny".

That was EXACTLY what I was thinking when I heard that. How many of these type of things over the years do you think exist that they have no clue about?!

[deu22ces]

Quote: Originally Posted by vannwolfhawk

That was EXACTLY what I was thinking when I heard that. How many of these type of things over the years do you think exist that they have no clue about?!

I was wondering that too. And what are the domino effects each time? Lol, I had a lot more typed but felt I should edit down. But however many there are, it's their own fault. Ratings are the most critical thing to a....ratings based game. Letting unaccounted for, random changes occur is just unbelievable to me. It's like laying a foundation out of sand and wondering why the house keeps sliding off.

[OhMrHanky]

Quote: Originally Posted by deu22ces

I was wondering that too. And what are the domino effects each time? Lol, I had a lot more typed but felt I should edit down. But however many there are, it's their own fault. Ratings are the most critical thing to a....ratings based game. Letting unaccounted for, random changes occur is just unbelievable to me. It's like laying a foundation out of sand and wondering why the house keeps sliding off.

Lol. Well, speaking as a java dev working on a MUCH SMALLER level than madden, admittedly, I can tell u that while we have things documented pretty well, as a dev, I can still sneak something in there. Lol. Meaning, maybe this specific instance, the dev had a user story that said, 'as a user, I want the pash rush to be better.' So, as a dev, maybe u try this, maybe u try that. Maybe, u just can't get anything better UNLESS u up their speed. U know? Maybe, that was the only solution. Or, maybe it was a quick fix they knew would work and shouldn't affect much else and wouldn't get noticed as a 'poor game fix' by other devs assuming they have some kind of peer review system.

So, ultimately, he makes the change, and show the team that the pass rush is better, and they think, 'yeah, that'll work. It's not a huge boost. It's helping the pass rush. It's fine.' Maybe, someone else thinks in the back of their mind, 'what if someone users the Dline and gets the boost and covers well?' Or something. But, ultimately, it's put on the back burner because he's got a lot of other stuff to work on. Lol. U know?

I mean, seriously, I hate to say it, but I'm guilty of that. We all have deadlines. Sometimes u do what u can and hope it doesn't affect much else. In this specific case, it affects, what, .05 % of plays in the history of madden in a neg fashion? So, it doesn't get noticed enough, but ultimately, with 4-6 million gamers, it does finally get noticed. Lol.


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[T4VERTS]

How something like that happens? Multiple development teams over many years on millions of lines of code. Different ways to note things over that time along with changing vernacular.

[deu22ces]

Quote: Originally Posted by T4VERTS

How something like that happens? Multiple development teams over many years on millions of lines of code. Different ways to note things over that time along with changing vernacular.

This instance happened only a couple years ago with this Dev team. This is not one of those 'legacy' code issues.

[T4VERTS]

Quote: Originally Posted by deu22ces

This instance happened only a couple years ago with this Dev team. This is not one of those 'legacy' code issues.

i didnt catch where he said it was with this development team that it was added, only that they fixed it. To be fair though while the interview is going on I'm normally planning for the next transition so I don't always get all the details until I listen a couple times. Again though, millions of lines of code and what one person does can effect many other areas. While that person may mean well it can have unintended consequences.

[deu22ces]

Quote: Originally Posted by T4VERTS

i didnt catch where he said it was with this development team that it was added, only that they fixed it. To be fair though while the interview is going on I'm normally planning for the next transition so I don't always get all the details until I listen a couple times. Again though, millions of lines of code and what one person does can effect many other areas. While that person may mean well it can have unintended consequences.

That's fine. He said it at around 15:30. "It traces back a couple years ago..."

[Toupal]

Have to play to critique it?

I used to do that when Madden released demos . Then for some reason they stopped doing that.

I don't have to play the game to know that they put no real effort into the only game mode I play (franchise).

I don't have to play it to know that every season, our wish lists go ignored.

I don't need to play it to see that franchise has less depth than Madden 05.

I don't need to play it to know that casual fans are more important to the NFL and EA than the true diehard fans.

They need to quit undermining the value of the consumers thoughts, ideas, and input.

If you read the threads, people are not happy. And as opposed to listening, they play it off with comments like "play it before you judge it. ". I have played it.... Since Madden 64. And I'm disappointed with the direction of this game.

I hope every year they prove my pessimism wrong. However, they don't. One of these seasons, Madden just prove me wrong. I dare you.

I dare you to listen to your consumers for one season, and then create the game based on their ideas.