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Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Old 09-16-2017, 07:49 AM   #209
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Originally Posted by goalieump413
How about EA ship a revised 'CFM Expansion Pack' and charge $10 for it? They seem happy to charge lesser fees for enhanced MUT stuff, so why not CFM stuff?

I know, bad idea... Sorry!

But honestly, if it comes down to it, money talks. I just don't think there's much of a demand for any 'enhanced' CFM addon.

Again... sorry...
The idea that there's little enthusiasm for a feature rich, deep franchise mode is based on the negativity around what we have now. It's because what we have is so weak that people feel that way. NBA 2k doesn't have that negativity around MyGM because it's so good. Thye've build something that NBA 2k gamers play and enjoy. Nobody says "dang, let's just get rid of MyGM, nobody cares about that anymore."

If EA wasn't so stubborn as to not look at anything that other devs do that work and took the opportunity to improve franchise mode and figure out ways that they could monetise it for those that want to pay then the Madden community would be all over franchise mode again. At least in my opinion.

Until then, the negativity around the mode will continue.
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:32 AM   #210
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Originally Posted by RogerDodger
The idea that there's little enthusiasm for a feature rich, deep franchise mode is based on the negativity around what we have now. It's because what we have is so weak that people feel that way. NBA 2k doesn't have that negativity around MyGM because it's so good. Thye've build something that NBA 2k gamers play and enjoy. Nobody says "dang, let's just get rid of MyGM, nobody cares about that anymore."

If EA wasn't so stubborn as to not look at anything that other devs do that work and took the opportunity to improve franchise mode and figure out ways that they could monetise it for those that want to pay then the Madden community would be all over franchise mode again. At least in my opinion.

Until then, the negativity around the mode will continue.
Well said, especially about EA being unwilling to mimick what other companies are doing successfully.
As long as they continue to try to do their own version of CFM and presentation in its current direction, it's destined to fail.
They own the freaking ESPN license. Yet they refuse to use it, and I'm almost positive it's for fear of falling well short of what that OTHER game did with it 13 years ago.
I'm not very optimistic anymore...it's become pretty clear their direction isn't what we'd hoped for.

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Old 09-16-2017, 02:21 PM   #211
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Holy crap that was 13 years ago.

I'm so old.


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Old 09-16-2017, 03:04 PM   #212
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

First post in a long time. Thread is TL;DR. Have a kiddo now so I don't have the time to go through 20+ pages.
I signed onto my desktop from my phone due to the lag just to post this.

I did not buy the game this year because of CFM.
I waited for the 53 man roster's to be released before renting the game and starting a franchise. I noticed things were already looking bleak when seeing nothing had changed in the menu's, but the straw that did it was seeing the CPU Titans releasing Cory Davis after simming the preseason. Ejected the game and took the rental back.

I played Longshot and it was pretty decent (aside from the terrible button timed scenes), but I ran through it within a handful of hours.

May not mean much to EA because I may only be one consumer but I came here to say explicitly that I did not, and will not buy this year's game because of CFM. Hope you're listening EA.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:01 AM   #213
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

To me, we have reached the point where there need to be several significant fixes. These fixes are going to take multiple years to implement - EA have shown that unlike 2K, they are generally incapable of making multiple notable fixes each year. That partly stems from the clearly greater polish of the 2K product - they have less to fix and have clearly got the ability to continue to build on what they do without it drastically affecting other areas of the game. Im not a game developer but that looks like better long term planning.

There are things to do and I think the biggest changes that EVERYONE will benefit from, not just the sim community, will make dramatic alterations to the experience of the sim community. For me, one of the first thing for EA to do is to introduce greater team specificity on depth charts which can then be used to greatly improve the authenticity, accuracy and individuality of team playbooks. For example, the depth chart for my 49ers, who run a Seahawks style 4-3 under would go as thus:

QB, RB, FB, TE, OWR (outside WR), SWR (slot WR), LT, LG, C, RG, RT, SSDE (strong side DE), WSDE (weak side DE), NT (1-tech/0-tech guys), DT (3-tech guys), SOLB (strong side OLB), WOLB (weak side OLB), MLB, $LB (Dime linebacker ie the 6th DB in dime), OCB (outside CB), NCB (nickel CB), SS (box safety), FS (deep safety), K, P, LS, 3DRB

Through a detailed investigation by EA (or they could pay someone like PFF to do it) they would establish whether teams had similar designations at certain positions, or whether they did in fact operate a left/right system, had interchangeable safeties/DTs etc. Heck they could probably just contact clued up fans who could tell them whether their team did so. Within the depth chart you could put players WHEREVER and they could appear multiple times.

Then within the individualised team playbooks - a product of the more individualised depth charts, player positions can be more specifically applied. In a nickel 4-2-5 for example, the d line would align based on the strength of the offense and go WSDE 1, NT 1, DT 1, SSDE 1 (based on depth chart rankings) In a wide 9 nickel package, the automatic setting would be WSDE 1, DT 2, DT 1, WSDE 2. Formation subs could adapt it but you can see how that would impact upon more detailed game planning AND would impact competitive and sim players. Competitive players wouldn't have to worry about having a stud pass rusher at one side of the formation with a low BSH and watching the opposition simply align to them and run at them, or consistently aligning a tight end to that side in pass rush situations and slowing their get off/staying in to block them. You can MAXIMISE your players.

After changing that I think demands for greater team individuality would be reduced. CFM playability would be improved - you can scheme better, draft more specifically etc. If this was introduced with the annual, incremental gameplay improvements I think we would have a dramatically better game.

Then, in future years, you could look to build on top a higher volume of actual player ratings - further increasing individuality, coaching carousels where you have coaching trees (i.e you can promote a position coach from within who will run the same depth chart structure and similar scheme), implement team traits etc. It will take time

BUT I think if EA dramatically improved depth chart, team playbook and playcalling individuality wed have a much improved game on what we have. Currently the only notable difference between teams is elite or very bad players. I want to see much more difference
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:43 PM   #214
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

I can't comprehend anything but a full rebuild at this point. XP needs to go. And the devs don't even know how changing one thing affects something else. Move the holding sliders down? Now oline block differently. Move pass interference up? Now every WR is Jerry Rice. Put QB accuracy down and now every QB is ordering strictly from Taco Bell. Many people claim the game is legitimately different on play now than franchise. The devs need to own up and start from zero again.
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Old 09-18-2017, 05:28 PM   #215
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Just some thoughts after reading through this thread...

First off, I don't think it's fair to diss EA devs and question their talent or ability. Afterall, this is EA and there's no shortage of talented devs for them to choose from. Having EA on your resume could make your career. It's been spoken to, in the past, about poor coding practices and turnover exacerbating issues and bugs. These are likely top-down decisions being made to prioritize certain parts of the game. The way it sounds to me is that they're using the same devs on both Live and Madden's CFM which has disaster written all over it, especially considering one's franchise mode is a logically flawed, feature lacking disgrace with a broken simulation engine that exists only for the sake of existing and the other is NBA Live. I'd hate to see their priority list.

Secondly, I think this is one of the rare areas where competition is overstated. Making a comparison to 2k in this regard is unfair because realistically, 2k hasn't had legitimate competition in almost a decade. They surely aren't competing with anyone when it comes to franchise modes.

IMO, the big difference here is how 2k went about improving their Franchise mode (MyLeague/MyGM). They actually hired passionate members of the community to work as devs which isn't common in the gaming as far as I know. Leftos didn't necessarily have a ton of experience going in, but that man had a vision, dedication, and damn near unparalleled work ethic. If you listened to him on any of the interviews or podcasts, he talks about his long nights spent working on the mode and his commitment and passion bled through everything he said.

From what I've seen, EA won't go further than bringing in community guys as "game changers" (irony) or to visit and offer feedback. What DeuceDouglas did with his write-up and blueprint probably would have had 2k trying to figure out how to get him on their team if roles were reversed. Instead, we'll have to live with the retweet he got and take solace in knowing devs is watching, even if that's all they're doing.

2k's MyLeague isn't without its flaws and bugs, but they've given us enough control over things as users that we can work around them. There was a nasty regression bug last year, but since we had regression/progression sliders we could stimy it. There are always issues with generated draft classes, but since they allow custom draft classes we can work around those. There are issues with 6th men overtaking starters because of the logic managing rosters according to OVR, but 2k goes and adds an option to override that on the player edit screen. Beyond that are dozens of sliders and options regarding the mode that can be tuned, enabled, disabled, or automated.

Rather than making a realistic representation/simulation of franchise management, they give us a diluted caricature of a mode that they refuse to overcomplicate out of fear of losing the people who don't even play it. If part of their justification is that people aren't playing the mode, they should consider how much they've alienated gamers from this mode. I'm actually one of those people that's gravitated to MUT because no other game mode has replayability in this game.

I just wish they would make an attempt at an actual franchise mode with a foundation mirroring NFL cap rules, decisions, and negotiations. If it's too much in the weeds, allow options to automate part of it. It's a joke that they've been adding things to the game to speed up Franchise mode when there's hardly anything to do anyway for gamers who want the full GM experience. The house rules that people have to come up with to enjoy this mode or come up with realistic results (creating and retiring coaches before each game?? Seriously???) are laughable. I'm not sure how much lower my expectations can get.
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:21 PM   #216
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

It's funny if you look at John White's twitter, the poor guy has to answer questions for Madden and NBA live's franchise modes because he's in chage of both of them. I think that speaks to the way higher ups at EA view these modes vs MUT or other microtransaction friendly modes.
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