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Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Old 10-13-2017, 09:57 PM   #489
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Just a thought; if MUT is or can be interpreted to be gambling, which has an age restriction (18 or 21), shouldn't Madden be R-rated? Or at least hide MUT behind an age restriction in some way?

I'm sure EA's lawyers are making sure everything they do is within the law, just an interesting thought.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:10 PM   #490
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubaSimulator
Just a thought; if MUT is or can be interpreted to be gambling, which has an age restriction (18 or 21), shouldn't Madden be R-rated? Or at least hide MUT behind an age restriction in some way?

I'm sure EA's lawyers are making sure everything they do is within the law, just an interesting thought.
It is not gambling, its a game of skill.
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:53 AM   #491
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Originally Posted by cheddabob7502
EA just plain cares only about the $$$. And anyone thinks otherwise just fooling themselves
I don't want to be the one to break this to you, but companies care very much about making money. It's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubaSimulator
Just a thought; if MUT is or can be interpreted to be gambling, which has an age restriction (18 or 21), shouldn't Madden be R-rated? Or at least hide MUT behind an age restriction in some way?

I'm sure EA's lawyers are making sure everything they do is within the law, just an interesting thought.
Buying card packs with virtual coins isn't gambling, though. Not any more than how we would buy packs of cards in real life anyway. Or like those small toy/sticker machines that were next to gumball machines. Or even the freakin gumball machine, lol.

Sometimes you get the item you wanted, sometimes you don't. It's a gamble in the sense that you don't know what exactly you're going to get, but you'll always get something, so you never actually "lose".
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Old 10-14-2017, 08:26 AM   #492
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Originally Posted by SmashMan
I don't want to be the one to break this to you, but companies care very much about making money. It's true.



Buying card packs with virtual coins isn't gambling, though. Not any more than how we would buy packs of cards in real life anyway. Or like those small toy/sticker machines that were next to gumball machines. Or even the freakin gumball machine, lol.

Sometimes you get the item you wanted, sometimes you don't. It's a gamble in the sense that you don't know what exactly you're going to get, but you'll always get something, so you never actually "lose".
It's also gambling in the sense that it results in the same emotional and chemical responses from participants which in turn results in chasing that high.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:08 PM   #493
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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It's also gambling in the sense that it results in the same emotional and chemical responses from participants which in turn results in chasing that high.
They count on that feeling from people, obviously. And these YouTubers with MUT channels contribute to the overall "Look what cool **** I got! You can get it too!" push...and while both can evoke the same feelings in some people, it's still not the definition of gambling.

Again, I reference old packs of baseball cards we'd used to go down to the store and buy. Would you consider that gambling?
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:10 PM   #494
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Originally Posted by SmashMan
They count on that feeling from people, obviously. And these YouTubers with MUT channels contribute to the overall "Look what cool **** I got! You can get it too!" push...and while both can evoke the same feelings in some people, it's still not the definition of gambling.

Again, I reference old packs of baseball cards we'd used to go down to the store and buy. Would you consider that gambling?
No, you are right. It is not gambling by definition. It is very similiar emotionally and human response. It is the same in that sense and the same people that would develop an addiction to gambling are at very high risk of wasting a lot of money on these type of features in games.

As far as buying baseball cards go, i can attest to it's potential at being a problem. I spent 90% of my money between the ages of 8 and 14 on baseball cards. It was disposable income at that point and my parents were still taking care of me so it wasn't a true problem. I remember the highs and lows of opening packs and at 14 i realized i could buy the whole year's set for much less money. Collecting baseball cards became lame at that point. I didn't move on to crack though, so it turned out alright.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:35 AM   #495
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

This thread has an insane amount of activity! I urge those who are entirely displeased to show their displeasure by not getting next year's Madden.
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Old 10-16-2017, 09:17 AM   #496
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Originally Posted by timhere1970
No, you are right. It is not gambling by definition. It is very similiar emotionally and human response. It is the same in that sense and the same people that would develop an addiction to gambling are at very high risk of wasting a lot of money on these type of features in games.

As far as buying baseball cards go, i can attest to it's potential at being a problem. I spent 90% of my money between the ages of 8 and 14 on baseball cards. It was disposable income at that point and my parents were still taking care of me so it wasn't a true problem. I remember the highs and lows of opening packs and at 14 i realized i could buy the whole year's set for much less money. Collecting baseball cards became lame at that point. I didn't move on to crack though, so it turned out alright.
That's exactly my point for asking about it in the first place. No, it's not technically gambling, but it abuses the same human psychology that creates addiction to get people hooked and spend money. Some people are more likely to develop an addiction than others but I think the majority of us have felt that rush when opening a pack (either digital or physical) or a loot box. Personally, I was close to developing an online gambling addiction because I got sucked into playing slot machines online. Luckily I was able to get out before it became a huge problem (and before I lost a ton of money) but I never gamble or even put down bets on games anymore because of that rush that so easily pulls me back in.

I feel the same rush when playing with card packs in Madden, FIFA, NHL or Hearthstone which is why I've tried it and then vowed to never try them again. I felt the same rush as with online slot machines and immediately recognized them as 'gambling systems'. And even though ESRB have said that Loot boxes are not gambling, psychologists seem to disagree:

from gameinformer.com
Quote:
"[Loot is] basically a slot machine built into a game mechanic," explains Hodzic. "In behavioural psychology, it's called a 'random ratio of reinforcement.'"
from forbes.com
Quote:
While it's true that, unlike a slot machine, a loot box will always result in some form of a prize, that doesn't change the fact that the simple act of opening loot boxes is incredibly similar to gambling, and taps into all the same parts of the brain.

"The player is basically working for reward by making a series of responses, but the rewards are delivered unpredictably," Dr. Luke Clark, director at the Center for Gambling Research at the University of British Columbia, told PC Gamer recently. "We know that the dopamine system, which is targeted by drugs of abuse, is also very interested in unpredictable rewards. Dopamine cells are most active when there is maximum uncertainty, and the dopamine system responds more to an uncertain reward than the same reward delivered on a predictable basis."

Psychologists call this "variable rate reinforcement." Essentially, the brain kicks into high gear when you're opening a loot box or pulling the lever on a slot machine or opening a Christmas present because the outcome is uncertain. This is exciting and, for many people, addictive.
So, while the ESRB is technically correct when saying that loot boxes and card packs are not gambling, they seem to ignore the much larger issue and danger; developing gambling addiction in young people.

That's why I asked in the first place whether all games with microtransactions should be rated Mature. I mean, you put a nipple or a swear word in your game, and it's rated Mature. But a 'gambling-like' system that can develop gambling addictions is E for Everyone?
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