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Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Old 10-19-2017, 12:42 PM   #545
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayhawkerStL
Hyperbole

Madden has a franchise mode and plenty of solo player gameplay. Yes, the emphasis is on multiplayer and MUT, but there are thousands, if not millions playing the game solo every year, including this year.

I feel your pain. I remember that feeling when FBPro 99 was recalled and Sierra shut down all of its sports games. Honestly, that's when sim football gaming died. That's when sim football players either went without or slummed with the console gamers. It wasn't great.

Seriously, the landscape of sports games, despite the lack of competition compared to the turn of the century, has never been better. You may be missing a focus on your personal favorite mode, but to say there is not football is beyond ridiculous.

This is probably the most I've played a football game since those FBPro 98 days. It's not a sim, but it is pretty damn impressive. You can still play a season with your favorite team. You can play in an online league. And despite some issues, it's the best gameplay any football game has ever had.

You aren't left in the cold. That's just you being too stubborn to come inside where a ton of people are actually warm and having a blast. It's okay to play a sports game that is not perfect.
Not for football is isn't. There is no NCAA football (or basketball for that matter), and Madden's franchise experience has not improved much at all on current gen consoles. These are things that were in Madden in the past but aren't now.

1. Players retiring and becoming coaches.

2. The ability to hire and fire real life coaches for HC, OC, and DC.

3. Draft classes. They aren't in now but never worked well after the
PS2/Xbox days.

4. Stadium creation.

The fact of the matter is all these things were in and worked properly in Madden 2005. Yes some things are better (practice squads, better draft and FA logic, and presentation), but to say the landscape is better now isn't true. Outside of graphics Madden isn't a better product now.

Now FIFA, The Show, and NHL are very good.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:06 PM   #546
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Originally Posted by bucky60
It's not hyperbole



it has a single player offline franchise mode, but it is extremely lacking and pretty bad. Less and less are playing it. I know I stopped.



I believe he was talking about single player, offline franchise. There he is not beyond ridiculous.



And none of those are single player, offline franchise, which is what he was talking about.



You are if what you enjoy is a single player, offline franchise mode.



Sounds like you are the one actually being to stubborn, bringing up things that are completely outside of what he was addressing and then calling him names like stubborn and hyperbolic.

How many times does someone have to say single player, offline franchise for you to address single player, offline franchise. Why call him stubborn and hyperbolic over what are legitimate concerns on his part.


I have a single player offline franchise going right now. Just sayin’.


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Old 10-19-2017, 01:31 PM   #547
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Originally Posted by JayhawkerStL
I have a single player offline franchise going right now. Just sayin’.


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That's great. Glad you enjoy it. Many others, including me don't.

See how that works. I didn't call you any names. I'm not trying to prove that you shouldn't or can't enjoy it. Not calling you stubborn or hyperbolic. Just happy for you that you're enjoying your single player offline franchise while recognizing that many of us don't.
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Old 10-19-2017, 02:04 PM   #548
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

You are telling me this in a thread full of condescending remarks about anyone that likes the game, likes MUT, and likes online play. So your sincere happiness about my enjoyment of the game is really appreciated.


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Old 10-19-2017, 02:13 PM   #549
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayhawkerStL
You are telling me this in a thread full of condescending remarks about anyone that likes the game, likes MUT, and likes online play. So your sincere happiness about my enjoyment of the game is really appreciated.


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I don't think, in general, posters are being condescending toward those that like Madden. They are mostly giving their reasons why many of us don't like Madden. And much of it has to do with CFM. You know, what the thread is actually about, "Madden's future of CFM is alarming."

I'm not sure why you (and others) feel this need to try and prove why others have to enjoy "CFM" or why you were so condescending to those that don't.

Again, I have no ill will toward you for enjoying Madden or CFM or mutt or online play. I would guess that most who DON'T like those things or the current CFM have no ill will toward you liking them. What I don't understand is you being condescending to those that don't and trying to prove why they have to.
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Old 10-19-2017, 02:26 PM   #550
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

As many know....I have enjoyed Madden a lot since Madden 25. I did not enjoy Madden the moment I purchased a PS3 (2009) and started playing those versions. Pure culture shock. Franchise mode stripped, gameplay average to below average. Just bad.

People clamor about Madden 12's franchise mode.....I find the game vastly overrated. Gameplay stunk. Franchise mode was a sterile text based mode. Lifeless.

Madden 13 was an abomination in terms of gameplay and the introduction of the bug ridden XP driven CFM mode.

But they cleaned things up starting with Madden 25 IMO. Gameplay finally felt like we were getting much better.

After Madden 16 I was really encouraged. Gameplay was leaps and bounds better than it had ever been.

But there were still camps pounding the sand about CFM. Well that was the direction they went in and it to this day has not stopped.

I adapted.

The gameplay was getting far better and I was having a lot of fun.

What is alarming for me.....and I have stated it many times and this will be my last time posting in this particular thread is the lack of AI improvement (both on and off the field) and lack of new features being built into CFM.

I have accepted what CFM is and learned to play with it and enjoy it. But that's me. I love playing console football and this game is a lot of fun.

It is clear the direction of sports gaming is going in the way of card based modes and story based modes.

Thank goodness The Show and NBA 2K have fantastic offline franchise offerings. I can't speak to that of FIFA and the Last version of NHL I have is 16 (more than good enough for me). It has a decent MyGmMode. Not great....but very playable.

These are mainstream video games and they will cater to the mainstream buying public. Simply looking at Head Coach 09.......it flopped and was never made again.

This is the game we have. You're either going to enjoy it.....or not buy it. But if really think some major change to franchise mode in console sports gaming is coming you will never be happy. It's not like NFL 2K5's franchise mode was all that. It was not....in fact it stunk.

Madden 2005-2007.....ok it had some features that I (and many here) adored and there is no excuse why we can't get back a lot of those "little" things that made it so cool back. I really miss that franchise mode. It was good.

But this development team has certainly made Madden a much better "football" game than it ever was before. No doubt.

But the lack of any serious under the hood work on core AI is highly concerning and a signal that we are dinosaurs (solitare off-line franchise guys).

I remember a post I made way back in the beginning of this thread about being in line to get 2K18. It was a huge line and easily 30 people deep. All younger than me. Much younger. All talking about MyTeam. NOTHING ELSE. All talking about breaking open packs blah blah blah. And I was like "well...this is the new reality".

thank god though they "get it" as far as offline franchise. My-League is incredible.....AI WARTS AND ALL.

That forum (2K) is a cess pool of entitled complainers. I am blown away at the amount of negativity surrounding that game as for me.....it is the best sports game I have ever played. I am scared to death they will over patch gameplay though because all you see is rage on twitter and reddit and games get tuned 6-7 times.....when out of the box it is fantastic.

This past cycle for MLB The Show 17....I never saw so much venom. it was embarrassing.

The reason I joined and became a part of this community was to share ways in how to enjoy and get the most out of sports games and also give developers constructive and respectful feedback in things that can be improved, tuned or fixed.

It's turned into a massive **** show. I can't see how developers can wade through the mountain of garbage posts, insults and demands and find a calming reasonable voice anymore.

So I just stick to slider threads and roster threads where 90% of us love having fun, give advice on playing the game and getting the most out of it.

This thread has tons of great points. But I think we all can agree......we are being pushed aside.

Thank god though we still have some great sports games we can always keep playing (The Show 17, NCAA 14, NBA 2K18, Madden 16, 17 or 18 take your pick I will stick with 18 and have no plans in getting any further Madden games unless they really overhaul AI).

Sports games today play better than ever IMO. Franchise modes while not text sim deep, IMO provide more than enough meat to have fun and be creative and allow you to play multiple seasons. But you have to be willing to look past AI imperfections and bugs.

They are not fixed and I do not see any plans on developers going deep to fix them, when they are reeling in $$$ on card based modes.

Simple as that.

So enjoy your sports games if you can. I know I am.
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Old 10-19-2017, 02:44 PM   #551
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Touched on in this thread by a few posters is also the idea that "sim" features/development can mean a variety of things.

To A&S's point, the gameplay in Madden has steadily improved. M18 for all its warts has the most realistic gameplay of any football game ever developed. Being that 99% of my time in-game is playing CFM in a 32-man league, I can say this quite confidently: the actual features, player interaction, balance, etc... while FAR from perfect, with proper tuning it's the most realistic Madden yet.

Two other key ways people use the catch-all term "sim" and realism:

1) Franchise mode features. While there's plenty in here already to make the game enjoyable, it basically has gone untouched for the past 3-4 cycles. Scouting got a modest re-design overhaul in M16 I think it was, but other than that the mode itself looks virtually identical to M15 and certainly hasn't improved in a material way. So, I get this argument and those complaints.

2) CPU AI. Again, I tend to forget that this is a huge part of what makes the game enjoyable for most folks. So I can totally acknowledge that AI is probably no better than it was multiple cycles ago. To me it's a subtle but necessary distinction to say that AI sucks vs gameplay mechanics suck. I realize the net/net result may be the same for some folks, but they are two different things.


The pure gameplay itself has improved significantly between M25 and now. Especially on more realistic slider sets with human players, it's just night & day. Every aspect of the game is at least improved, some are completely overhauled. The warts remain, some quite large, but it's much better.

So when we talk about how "the sim crowd" has been ignored, try to be specific. AI & franchise mode seem to have been largely ignored, but it's not true to say the dev team hasn't greatly improved upon simulation-driven features in the gameplay itself.

While the direction of MUT/arcade/competitive is pretty clear, take some hope away from this: smart businesses who primarily care about driving revenue & profit such as EA are much better these days about understanding their different customer segments, rather than optimizing everything toward a single common denominator customer type. Therefore, I feel like the franchise crowd will continue to get love each title, even though MUT/competitive aren't going away as the focal point anytime soon. Single player franchise mode I would wager remains the most common way people play Madden. EA devs have said as much. Now, those folks don't drive the incremental revenue over & above the original sale that the hardcore MUT guys do, so I'm not implying franchise mode will become front & center. But they aren't going to let it die. Too many hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue tied to your truly casual gamers who just want to fire up a solo franchise and don't want to play online vs other humans (and who never have visited or will visit OperationSports).
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Last edited by Aestis; 10-19-2017 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 10-19-2017, 03:24 PM   #552
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aestis
Touched on in this thread by a few posters is also the idea that "sim" features/development can mean a variety of things.

To A&S's point, the gameplay in Madden has steadily improved. M18 for all its warts has the most realistic gameplay of any football game ever developed. Being that 99% of my time in-game is playing CFM in a 32-man league, I can say this quite confidently: the actual features, player interaction, balance, etc... while FAR from perfect, with proper tuning it's the most realistic Madden yet.

Two other key ways people use the catch-all term "sim" and realism:

1) Franchise mode features. While there's plenty in here already to make the game enjoyable, it basically has gone untouched for the past 3-4 cycles. Scouting got a modest re-design overhaul in M16 I think it was, but other than that the mode itself looks virtually identical to M15 and certainly hasn't improved in a material way. So, I get this argument and those complaints.

2) CPU AI. Again, I tend to forget that this is a huge part of what makes the game enjoyable for most folks. So I can totally acknowledge that AI is probably no better than it was multiple cycles ago. To me it's a subtle but necessary distinction to say that AI sucks vs gameplay mechanics suck. I realize the net/net result may be the same for some folks, but they are two different things.


The pure gameplay itself has improved significantly between M25 and now. Especially on more realistic slider sets with human players, it's just night & day. Every aspect of the game is at least improved, some are completely overhauled. The warts remain, some quite large, but it's much better.

So when we talk about how "the sim crowd" has been ignored, try to be specific. AI & franchise mode seem to have been largely ignored, but it's not true to say the dev team hasn't greatly improved upon simulation-driven features in the gameplay itself.

While the direction of MUT/arcade/competitive is pretty clear, take some hope away from this: smart businesses who primarily care about driving revenue & profit such as EA are much better these days about understanding their different customer segments, rather than optimizing everything toward a single common denominator customer type. Therefore, I feel like the franchise crowd will continue to get love each title, even though MUT/competitive aren't going away as the focal point anytime soon. Single player franchise mode I would wager remains the most common way people play Madden. EA devs have said as much. Now, those folks don't drive the incremental revenue over & above the original sale that the hardcore MUT guys do, so I'm not implying franchise mode will become front & center. But they aren't going to let it die. Too many hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue tied to your truly casual gamers who just want to fire up a solo franchise and don't want to play online vs other humans (and who never have visited or will visit OperationSports).

I get what you are saying and i agree in a lot of ways gameplay has made tremendous advancement. However, with each passing year qb's play less like their real life counterpart and less like anything that has ever played the position successfully.. To me and many others, if i can read a room, that is such a huge issue that it overshadows and renders all other improvements minor. In the game of football qb play is just too important to be ignored by ea as we watch the steady deteoration.
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