PROGRESSION: OVERHAULED

[Rollo]

Quote: Originally Posted by triplechin

Actually, I think this could be a decent way the more I think about it. You start in the preseason with the scouting reports you had from the draft, then you narrow it down and it becomes more accurate as the rookie is on your team. Eventually unlocking the exact attributes. I think the difficulty would be in game attributes, you would probably be able to see them on the depth chart or something. But the concept doesn't sound too wild...

I know in M12 it was broken that the depth chart would show their true ratings even though they weren't completely unlocked during the preseason. It could (edit: would need to) be retooled to show a letter grade in the depth chart screen and then you'd just have to decide on where you want to place them in the chart to give them that playing time.

[Jr.]

Just want to chime in and say this is fantastic. Very thorough, but makes a lot of sense and brings in a lot of factors to something that no game I've played has really done correctly.

Kudos!!

[oneamongthefence]

One more addition that should be added is scheme. Rookies come out of college playing in a certain scheme whether its spread, option, 3-4, 4-3 etc. And there should be a learning curve needed to adjust to unfamiliar schemes. For example you draft a QB who was primarily operated out of shotgun. Your team uses a west coast style offense that emphasises 3 step drops and quick hitters. That qb would have to learn to play the position differently than he has in the past so he could have another modifier on his progression/regression. Similar to Alex Smith who had a difficult time adjusting to the NFL when he came from Utah, it took him a few years aside from the fact that he had a revolving door of coaches in San Francisco. Which leads me to my next point. Familiarity.

Some players excel in one type of scheme and others seem to excel no matter what they deal with. There needs to be a playbook knowledge rating. These can positively or negatively impact progression. If a player knows the playbook he can focus on improving over someone who is lost and this should be a major factor in determining whether awareness increases or decreases.

Sent from my LGAS992 using Operation Sports mobile app

[triplechin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jr.

Just want to chime in and say this is fantastic. Very thorough, but makes a lot of sense and brings in a lot of factors to something that no game I've played has really done correctly. Kudos!!

Appreciate the kind words!

Quote: Originally Posted by oneamongthefence

One more addition that should be added is scheme. Rookies come out of college playing in a certain scheme whether its spread, option, 3-4, 4-3 etc. And there should be a learning curve needed to adjust to unfamiliar schemes. For example you draft a QB who was primarily operated out of shotgun. Your team uses a west coast style offense that emphasises 3 step drops and quick hitters. That qb would have to learn to play the position differently than he has in the past so he could have another modifier on his progression/regression. Similar to Alex Smith who had a difficult time adjusting to the NFL when he came from Utah, it took him a few years aside from the fact that he had a revolving door of coaches in San Francisco. Which leads me to my next point. Familiarity. Some players excel in one type of scheme and others seem to excel no matter what they deal with. There needs to be a playbook knowledge rating. These can positively or negatively impact progression. If a player knows the playbook he can focus on improving over someone who is lost and this should be a major factor in determining whether awareness increases or decreases. Sent from my LGAS992 using Operation Sports mobile app

Yeah I think in my franchise write up I have playbook knowledge in there. I like it to somehow effect performance but not sure about progression. For example, player doesnt fit in scheme and doesnt have pbk, he performs poorly, then goes to new team that he fits and plays better. Should the overall operate independently and then it can fluctuate due to pbk and scheme factors, or should they be tied in together?

So in one scenario, a player goes from a 75 to an 80, but performs like a 65 because of scheme and pbk. Then goes to new team, and performs as the 80 he is. Or, a player that doesnt fit goes from 75 to 65, then switches teams and goes up to 80? Idk what implementation would be best, would need more time to flesh out.

[SyncereBlackout]

What if xp was reconfigured rather than replaced?

Replace and Retire XP
Xp should transition to CFM coins and conform to the MUT Currency model with a 1:1 ratio.

100xp = 100 CFM Coins
10,000xp = 1 CFM Dollar (can only be purchased with $)

CFM Coin Application - individual Training Sessions (4 players)
Coins can be used to purchase training packages. Player Training sessions are similar to training sessions available in FIFA. Rather than purchasing one attribute to short pass accuracy with xp, a Longshot or Skills Trainer like drill can be played (or simmed) to progress a grouping of attributes to the next level.


Game Prep
Individual Training Sessions should replace the current “player focus” function in Game Prep. This is not meant to take the place of game prep, and the coins that can be earned through game prep, but instead add a layer of depth to roster development and player progression (similar to pre-draft training, offseason training, players that get to the facility early or stay late to run drills, etc)

Rather than game prep earning/accruing coins individually, it should be done by either position group (use nfl Combine groups or use xp sliders groups). Users then have the ability to decide what players to individually train.

Add a 3rd game prep option for special teams players (kickoff punt FG). Here Long Snappers, gunners and fringe players can earn additional coins for special teams drills which IRL are how these types of players work their way into the lineup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[triplechin]

Quote: Originally Posted by SyncereBlackout

What if xp was reconfigured rather than replaced? Replace and Retire XP Xp should transition to CFM coins and conform to the MUT Currency model with a 1:1 ratio. 100xp = 100 CFM Coins 10,000xp = 1 CFM Dollar (can only be purchased with $) CFM Coin Application - individual Training Sessions (4 players) Coins can be used to purchase training packages. Player Training sessions are similar to training sessions available in FIFA. Rather than purchasing one attribute to short pass accuracy with xp, a Longshot or Skills Trainer like drill can be played (or simmed) to progress a grouping of attributes to the next level. Game Prep Individual Training Sessions should replace the current “player focus” function in Game Prep. This is not meant to take the place of game prep, and the coins that can be earned through game prep, but instead add a layer of depth to roster development and player progression (similar to pre-draft training, offseason training, players that get to the facility early or stay late to run drills, etc) Rather than game prep earning/accruing coins individually, it should be done by either position group (use nfl Combine groups or use xp sliders groups). Users then have the ability to decide what players to individually train. Add a 3rd game prep option for special teams players (kickoff punt FG). Here Long Snappers, gunners and fringe players can earn additional coins for special teams drills which IRL are how these types of players work their way into the lineup. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If this could be an additional layer that was not how progression worked but something on top that people could purchase I would be fine. So basically a skill boost but one that could be completely avoided and not disturb normal progression.

[SyncereBlackout]

Re: CFM progression

“Why is it random, and why can't players grow the attributes the way they want? Senior designer John White says that players in online leagues would save up all their points and then dump them into an attribute like speed all at once. This, however, wouldn't change the player's OVR rating, creating an imbalance that threw off the game's free agent or resigning logic. "We would never rate a guy like people were able to build these guys," he said.”

Thoughts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[triplechin]

Quote: Originally Posted by SyncereBlackout

Re: CFM progression “Why is it random, and why can't players grow the attributes the way they want? Senior designer John White says that players in online leagues would save up all their points and then dump them into an attribute like speed all at once. This, however, wouldn't change the player's OVR rating, creating an imbalance that threw off the game's free agent or resigning logic. "We would never rate a guy like people were able to build these guys," he said.” Thoughts Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey Blackout! How's it going?

To respond to the archetypes/randomness, it is similar to some of my ideas so I think it is a step in the right direction. Not sure how the execution will be but the concept is decent. However, it is not enough for me at all.

It is a (much needed) bandaid to the issue that XP provides as a progression system. But that's all it is. XP and dev traits are, simply fundamentally broken, there is no way around it. It's a bandaid for a much bigger problem. I see they don't want to get rid of XP, but I'll never play with XP. It is so immersion breaking and just not realistic nor challenging, especially going up against the CPU. I'm pretty sad that it seems like people enjoy it because it is different or because the old progression system sucked, but this is just a poor system. It is not realistic and invades the gameplay which I hate. I just don't see eye to eye with people who enjoy XP. I can imagine a competitive crowd enjoying it but they've got MUT and H2H, franchise mode should be for people looking for NFL Football. I'm not sure what other crowds like it but there must be a substantial amount. There must not be a substantial amount of "sim heads" because we all know XP is not a good model of real life player progression. I just don't think Madden is for me.