BUILDING A BETTER MOUSE TRAP

[mpd3892]

12/16/17 Update: I've been testing out something that appears to greatly improve gameplay throughout (offense & defense) related to the HIGH MOTOR trait. Before releasing my info I want to see a little more. Once I'm confident I have found something, I'll create a thread within the slider forum. I hope to put something out tomorrow.

Thanks to all who have checked in and I hope you found something useful.

INTRO

Spoiler

What this thread is about is my journey to unlock the strengths of Madden and find the game I truly want. It won’t be about just one aspect. It will go into sliders, although there won’t be much here as I believe that straying too far from default opens Pandora’s Box. There will be some thoughts on CFM actions, such as FA, resigning, progression, etc. Mostly this will be about player editing. For this is where we can truly unlock the game and build a better mouse trap.

I had planned to wait and put this up once I had everything locked down, but realistically that might never come. And at the rate I’m progressing, M19 will likely be here before then. Unfortunately I have very limited time to play and/or look at improving the game.

Feedback and questions will always be welcomed and I will try to answer as many questions and address as many concerns as I can.

NOTE: I like to give credit where credit is due. Unfortunately this doesn’t always happen, not because I don not wish to, but because I cannot recall the source. If you see something within that you believe came from you (it may very well may have) please by all means send me a PM along with a link to where you presented the idea and I will make an edit giving you credit. If you did the work, you should definitely get the credit.

Big influences and sources of information have been first and foremost khaliib (I recommend reading his posts), JoshC, KingV2k3 and many others. Thank you for sharing your passion and knowledge.

TESTING:

Spoiler

All testing is done with the latest updates and with default rosters. Tests are done within CFM, on AP and with all default sliders/settings.

While this promises to be rather long, I will hide most of it within a “spoiler” tab and try to maintain an edit section for quick reference.

Theory & Goal

Spoiler

As a longtime Madden player (since it’s very first iteration), like most, I’ve always wanted and hoped for a game that closely replicates what we see on Sunday. Over the years I was often disappointed and rarely able to play beyond a few seasons at most.

Like many others I fell into the trap of trying to tweak sliders endlessly seeking that magical elixir. Often coming close, but never quite getting there. I tried most slider recommendations on OS, often learning a little something along the way. Eventually I got frustrated and shelved Madden hoping next year would bring a better game.

Last year I began to look into playing on Rookie on the off chance that there might be something there. Along the way khaliib joined in on the discussion and graciously shared some of his knowledge. He advocated player edits as a better way to get the most out of the game. I thought it was an intriguing idea, but don’t want to get tied up with the time it would take to edit players.

Fast forward to M18 and the cycle began anew, albeit with what appears to be a better base game. I once again went down the rabbit whole trying out various slider recommendations. And once again, not quite liking what I saw.

I thought back to last year and remembered what khaliib had suggested. I went back and read every post of his I could find (going back to M25), taking notes along the way. I believe that from at least M16 (and in some ways further back) Madden has essentially been the same game, only with tweaks along the way.

I began to get an idea of what I wanted to accomplish and how I might do it. The two biggest areas that I wanted to focus on and have, in my opinion, been lacking are OL/DL interaction and defensive pass defense. So it was here that I have put in the most time and effort.

GOAL #1 improve OL/DL interaction:

Spoiler

Overall, I think this year’s Madden does a fairly good job here. There is, however, something missing. After every play I went back and looked at how the OL blocked, how they did in their decision making on who to block, and did ratings matter.

I often saw players, both top rated and backups, making poor decisions. I recalled reading an article that stated that OL AWR affected their ability to pickup attackers and move from one block to another. I read something similar in a post in one of the threads here on OS. With that I began to experiment with OL AWR. What I quickly found that when I rated lineman 85+, they made far better decisions. They wouldn’t just block whoever was in front of them and ignore other attackers, they would work well with each other and if an attacker came on a delay (such as LB or DB) they would come off a double team to try to engage the attacker. Also, if an attacker was being handled by a teammate, they would hold a ready position looking for a free attacker.

Next I lowered AWR to 80 to see if I got the same results. At this setting I began to some poor decisions that in real life would get a lineman benched right away (unless he plays for the Cowboys, Chaz Green against ATL. &#128521. Going with 83 I saw some bad decisions, but nothing egregious. 80 might be good for rookies and/or 3rd stringers.

Here are some examples from various games (more then 10) between the Giants and Cowboys:
- JPP was able to beat Collins around the edge twice. A third time Dak duct under the sack attempt. I was able to scramble right and spotted Williams come open across the field when the LB vacated his zone to move towards me. I hit Williams for a big gain. Vernon was able to get a sack when I was unable to move up in the pocket because DT2 was able to push Cooper backwards. T. Smith was able to control Vernon and keep him away. When he went down with an injury Vernon blew past Bell for the sack.
- With all OL AWR 85+, the lineman were picking up rushers properly. The LG goes out injured and the backup has AWR 81. The defense sends a LB and a S on a blitz, both at the LG. The RT kicked out the RDE, the C took on the DT2 (who slanted to the right). The backup LG shifted to the left to take on the LB, who was on a delayed rush, and allowed the S to pass by uncontested. With linemen AWR 85+, they will take on the nearest threat and will come off double teams to pickup blitzes. They may not get there in time, but will make the effort.
- On 2nd & 15 I called a pass play with empty backfield. My starting RG had go out earlier with cramps. At the snap JPP got around my RT, forcing me to step up in the pocket. Vernon started a deep rush. My LT tried to push Vernon wide, but he used a swim move to push the LT aside and took an inside rush. DT1 Harrison beat my backup RG and sacked me as I stepped up.
- In a game between the Steelers and Browns: On 3rd a 13. At the snap LDE takes an inside slant the RT blocks him to the left towards the inside. The MLB blitzes on a left arc and CB3 blitzes from the right of the RT. Upon the seeing the LB blitz, the RT disengages and slides right picking up the blitzing LB. The RG blocks DT1 who comes on a straight bullrush. The C slides to the right to pickup the LDE, but when the LDE continues across the line he slides over to help the RT. The RT, having received help from the C, sees the blitzing CB and tries to slide out to pick him up. The CB closes too fast and is able to get past the RT’s attempted block. I’m able to hit the TE on a cross when he gets between 2 defenders. The defender to the left of the TE is unable to react as he has his head turned to his right and is moving to pickup the HB coming out of the backfield and moving into the left flat. Because of the pass rush and the need to get rid of the ball quickly, I fail to see WR3 uncovered on a streak (due to the blitzing CB) when the SS moved over to help cover my WR2 on the right. The play gains 5 yards and I have to punt.

I also noticed that line calls matter in both the run game and passing game. A call to slant left on a run play will cause the LT to push the RDE (or outside attacker) out wide. The LG and C will try and seal off inside attackers (DT2LBs) and push them out and/or to the right. If the D line slants right, they can sometimes carry the block into the HB’s path. This can also allow the left outside attacker (ie., LDE) to move down the line unblocked.

By now I’m really excited. Goal #1 looks achieved. But then I began to think about what a daunting task it would be to edit every O lineman and what would be the affects on CFM actions (FA, resigning, draft, etc). So, of course I began to look a little deeper.

I looked over my notes and saw a reference to a discussion Mutheads () discussing traits. I noted the part about how High Motor affects linemen. I went back and looked at whether the players I was looking at had this trait. Most did.

From there I began to test what affect this trait was having on OL blocking decisions. First I only edited to it on and made no other edits. I began to see linemen once again making poor decisions. They were eager to block and would often rush to double team or move out to the second level, thereby creating an open lane for an attacker. It didn’t matter what their OVR was or their AWR (both high and low made bad decisions).

Going back and changing them all to where High Motor was off significantly improved blocking decisions once again. I once again saw linemen being patient and coming off double teams to engage an attacker coming free. The were no longer in a hurry to engage in a block. Have I found my golden elixir that I am searching for? Only time will tell, but I believe I have and this is one edit that doesn’t take long and won’t affect CFM actions. To me High Motor = eagerness for blockers and thus can have a negative affect.

Before moving on, I also saw many of the same results with other offensive players trying to block, namely TEs and RBs. I believe moving them to High Motor off will also improve their decision making when it comes to blocking. At this time I haven’t looked into other areas that might be affected by doing so.

GOAL #2 improve pass defense (both man and zone):

Having been a DB in college and in the Marines, this are is of particular interest. More to come on this with some very good findings, albeit time consuming edits. I’m still looking for a possible quick fix as with OL blocking and High Motor.

It is my hope that everyone that takes the time to read this thread will learn something, be able to contribute something and enjoy the journey. Thanks for reading and happy “Maddening”!

[mpd3892]

Please check out my new thread over in the Slider Section for an update to my thoughts on the HIGH MOTOR trait.

[tommycoa]

Quote: Originally Posted by mpd3892

Please check out my new thread over in the Slider Section for an update to my thoughts on the HIGH MOTOR trait.

Try turning up offsides to 65 or so. This really boosts the dline and they block shed better for interactions. Now there’ll be adjustments to make with blocking so there aren’t too many sacks or TFLs. Maybe you’re high motor theory helps in this regard to blocking. Ill have to try it out.

Turning all recievers and ball carriers, minus qb, to never on covers the ball, really opens the game up. Wondering if it’ll do the same if you change this trait for all players?

[mpd3892]

Thanks tommycoa.

I want to stay away from slider adjustments. I believe that its a house of cards. Adjust one to gain a specific outcome and it leads to unintended consequences elsewhere.

The thing I've found with roster edits is that you can make edits to get a desired outcome and it doesn't have a negative affect elsewhere.

I really like your idea of adjusting the ball carrying trait. No doubt the setting of this trait can affect gameplay. It makes sense.

Traits just might be the key to unlocking the game!

[Darth Aegis]

One of the rosters I made I raised everyones awarness to 100. I really enjoyed the results.

[mpd3892]

Khaliib suggested doing this as well. I gave it a try and it did seem to work well. My concern was how it would impact CFM actions (FA, draft, etc). I didn't want to have to raise and lower it every time I played a game.

[Darth Aegis]

Quote: Originally Posted by mpd3892

Khaliib suggested doing this as well. I gave it a try and it did seem to work well. My concern was how it would impact CFM actions (FA, draft, etc). I didn't want to have to raise and lower it every time I played a game.

Yeah, i just always left it after I edited it. The game isnt dynamic enough with traits and ratings. Way to basic and cookie cutter. I wish you luck man, I like the thread. At the end of the day it wasnt worth my time and effort editing rosters when EA will just swoop in and release a patch and break something.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by mpd3892

12/16/17 Update: I've been testing out something that appears to greatly improve gameplay throughout (offense & defense) related to the HIGH MOTOR trait. Before releasing my info I want to see a little more. Once I'm confident I have found something, I'll create a thread within the slider forum. I hope to put something out tomorrow. Thanks to all who have checked in and I hope you found something useful. INTRO Spoiler What this thread is about is my journey to unlock the strengths of Madden and find the game I truly want. It won’t be about just one aspect. It will go into sliders, although there won’t be much here as I believe that straying too far from default opens Pandora’s Box. There will be some thoughts on CFM actions, such as FA, resigning, progression, etc. Mostly this will be about player editing. For this is where we can truly unlock the game and build a better mouse trap. I had planned to wait and put this up once I had everything locked down, but realistically that might never come. And at the rate I’m progressing, M19 will likely be here before then. Unfortunately I have very limited time to play and/or look at improving the game. Feedback and questions will always be welcomed and I will try to answer as many questions and address as many concerns as I can. NOTE: I like to give credit where credit is due. Unfortunately this doesn’t always happen, not because I don not wish to, but because I cannot recall the source. If you see something within that you believe came from you (it may very well may have) please by all means send me a PM along with a link to where you presented the idea and I will make an edit giving you credit. If you did the work, you should definitely get the credit. Big influences and sources of information have been first and foremost khaliib (I recommend reading his posts), JoshC, KingV2k3 and many others. Thank you for sharing your passion and knowledge. TESTING: Spoiler All testing is done with the latest updates and with default rosters. Tests are done within CFM, on AP and with all default sliders/settings. While this promises to be rather long, I will hide most of it within a “spoiler” tab and try to maintain an edit section for quick reference. Theory & Goal Spoiler As a longtime Madden player (since it’s very first iteration), like most, I’ve always wanted and hoped for a game that closely replicates what we see on Sunday. Over the years I was often disappointed and rarely able to play beyond a few seasons at most. Like many others I fell into the trap of trying to tweak sliders endlessly seeking that magical elixir. Often coming close, but never quite getting there. I tried most slider recommendations on OS, often learning a little something along the way. Eventually I got frustrated and shelved Madden hoping next year would bring a better game. Last year I began to look into playing on Rookie on the off chance that there might be something there. Along the way khaliib joined in on the discussion and graciously shared some of his knowledge. He advocated player edits as a better way to get the most out of the game. I thought it was an intriguing idea, but don’t want to get tied up with the time it would take to edit players. Fast forward to M18 and the cycle began anew, albeit with what appears to be a better base game. I once again went down the rabbit whole trying out various slider recommendations. And once again, not quite liking what I saw. I thought back to last year and remembered what khaliib had suggested. I went back and read every post of his I could find (going back to M25), taking notes along the way. I believe that from at least M16 (and in some ways further back) Madden has essentially been the same game, only with tweaks along the way. I began to get an idea of what I wanted to accomplish and how I might do it. The two biggest areas that I wanted to focus on and have, in my opinion, been lacking are OL/DL interaction and defensive pass defense. So it was here that I have put in the most time and effort. GOAL #1 improve OL/DL interaction: Spoiler Overall, I think this year’s Madden does a fairly good job here. There is, however, something missing. After every play I went back and looked at how the OL blocked, how they did in their decision making on who to block, and did ratings matter. I often saw players, both top rated and backups, making poor decisions. I recalled reading an article that stated that OL AWR affected their ability to pickup attackers and move from one block to another. I read something similar in a post in one of the threads here on OS. With that I began to experiment with OL AWR. What I quickly found that when I rated lineman 85+, they made far better decisions. They wouldn’t just block whoever was in front of them and ignore other attackers, they would work well with each other and if an attacker came on a delay (such as LB or DB) they would come off a double team to try to engage the attacker. Also, if an attacker was being handled by a teammate, they would hold a ready position looking for a free attacker. Next I lowered AWR to 80 to see if I got the same results. At this setting I began to some poor decisions that in real life would get a lineman benched right away (unless he plays for the Cowboys, Chaz Green against ATL. &#128521. Going with 83 I saw some bad decisions, but nothing egregious. 80 might be good for rookies and/or 3rd stringers. Here are some examples from various games (more then 10) between the Giants and Cowboys: - JPP was able to beat Collins around the edge twice. A third time Dak duct under the sack attempt. I was able to scramble right and spotted Williams come open across the field when the LB vacated his zone to move towards me. I hit Williams for a big gain. Vernon was able to get a sack when I was unable to move up in the pocket because DT2 was able to push Cooper backwards. T. Smith was able to control Vernon and keep him away. When he went down with an injury Vernon blew past Bell for the sack. - With all OL AWR 85+, the lineman were picking up rushers properly. The LG goes out injured and the backup has AWR 81. The defense sends a LB and a S on a blitz, both at the LG. The RT kicked out the RDE, the C took on the DT2 (who slanted to the right). The backup LG shifted to the left to take on the LB, who was on a delayed rush, and allowed the S to pass by uncontested. With linemen AWR 85+, they will take on the nearest threat and will come off double teams to pickup blitzes. They may not get there in time, but will make the effort. - On 2nd & 15 I called a pass play with empty backfield. My starting RG had go out earlier with cramps. At the snap JPP got around my RT, forcing me to step up in the pocket. Vernon started a deep rush. My LT tried to push Vernon wide, but he used a swim move to push the LT aside and took an inside rush. DT1 Harrison beat my backup RG and sacked me as I stepped up. - In a game between the Steelers and Browns: On 3rd a 13. At the snap LDE takes an inside slant the RT blocks him to the left towards the inside. The MLB blitzes on a left arc and CB3 blitzes from the right of the RT. Upon the seeing the LB blitz, the RT disengages and slides right picking up the blitzing LB. The RG blocks DT1 who comes on a straight bullrush. The C slides to the right to pickup the LDE, but when the LDE continues across the line he slides over to help the RT. The RT, having received help from the C, sees the blitzing CB and tries to slide out to pick him up. The CB closes too fast and is able to get past the RT’s attempted block. I’m able to hit the TE on a cross when he gets between 2 defenders. The defender to the left of the TE is unable to react as he has his head turned to his right and is moving to pickup the HB coming out of the backfield and moving into the left flat. Because of the pass rush and the need to get rid of the ball quickly, I fail to see WR3 uncovered on a streak (due to the blitzing CB) when the SS moved over to help cover my WR2 on the right. The play gains 5 yards and I have to punt. I also noticed that line calls matter in both the run game and passing game. A call to slant left on a run play will cause the LT to push the RDE (or outside attacker) out wide. The LG and C will try and seal off inside attackers (DT2LBs) and push them out and/or to the right. If the D line slants right, they can sometimes carry the block into the HB’s path. This can also allow the left outside attacker (ie., LDE) to move down the line unblocked. By now I’m really excited. Goal #1 looks achieved. But then I began to think about what a daunting task it would be to edit every O lineman and what would be the affects on CFM actions (FA, resigning, draft, etc). So, of course I began to look a little deeper. I looked over my notes and saw a reference to a discussion Mutheads () discussing traits. I noted the part about how High Motor affects linemen. I went back and looked at whether the players I was looking at had this trait. Most did. From there I began to test what affect this trait was having on OL blocking decisions. First I only edited to it on and made no other edits. I began to see linemen once again making poor decisions. They were eager to block and would often rush to double team or move out to the second level, thereby creating an open lane for an attacker. It didn’t matter what their OVR was or their AWR (both high and low made bad decisions). Going back and changing them all to where High Motor was off significantly improved blocking decisions once again. I once again saw linemen being patient and coming off double teams to engage an attacker coming free. The were no longer in a hurry to engage in a block. Have I found my golden elixir that I am searching for? Only time will tell, but I believe I have and this is one edit that doesn’t take long and won’t affect CFM actions. To me High Motor = eagerness for blockers and thus can have a negative affect. Before moving on, I also saw many of the same results with other offensive players trying to block, namely TEs and RBs. I believe moving them to High Motor off will also improve their decision making when it comes to blocking. At this time I haven’t looked into other areas that might be affected by doing so. GOAL #2 improve pass defense (both man and zone): Having been a DB in college and in the Marines, this are is of particular interest. More to come on this with some very good findings, albeit time consuming edits. I’m still looking for a possible quick fix as with OL blocking and High Motor. It is my hope that everyone that takes the time to read this thread will learn something, be able to contribute something and enjoy the journey. Thanks for reading and happy “Maddening”!

What about run blocking? How does this effect run blocks, especially on tosses, for example, where too often the linemen will run right past the guy they are supposed to block?