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Min speed threshold

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Old 01-24-2018, 07:44 PM   #17
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Re: Min speed threshold

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Originally Posted by Landonio
Because high is not best. Unless you're playing on Pro or something. These 100 apologists are just wrong. 30-50 has always been the sweet spot if you actually want ratings to matter. Anything higher causes weird interactions, warping, rubberbanding, and ratings to mean less. Especially on All-Madden, which already cheats you to begin with.
Ok, so between 30 and 50, which do you suggest? Which do you use

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Old 01-24-2018, 08:15 PM   #18
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Re: Min speed threshold

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Originally Posted by Slyone14
So I'm honestly confused now. So if high is best, why do so many slider sets have it at 50?

I just want my small, lightening quick receivers to run like they are supposed to and my cbs also? So then for me what would you suggest? Wouldn't 100 threshold make my speedy wr useless?

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I think its just personal preference, nobody is right & nobody is wrong. Test it for yourself in practice mode and see what you like best. I have 2 sets one with it at 53 & one on a 100, so it can range.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:33 PM   #19
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Re: Min speed threshold

Yeah, the receivers get more separation with a low setting, but those blitzing linebackers get to the quarterback quicker, too.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:42 PM   #20
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Re: Min speed threshold

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Originally Posted by Aestis
I can't speak to which slider threads are "major," but I've definitely seen high thresholds pop up in a couple of popular threads. I know charter's has been high before, Flazko uses 90 in his personal set, etc. No idea who is at what right now. EDIT: As for game developers, they balance the game so that you'll get a realistic score running 5 min quarters. Meaning, all offense all the time forever & ever. 50 or lower threshold is a great way to make the game more offensive, frankly. When I say realism I'm talking about having the gameplay itself actually become more realistic. Geared for 115-125 snaps instead of 40-50.

You can objectively measure in-game player speed down the field vs NFL players down the field. How long it takes them to get 30, 60 yds for instance.

You can compare average DB 40 times with average OL 40 times and objectively measure what the distance gap is IRL vs in-game. Do that and the evidence becomes crystal clear. I haven't even mentioned the eyeball test, which high threshold wins with ease, or the balance, where high threshold is one of the key ways to allow man coverage to function effectively.

I can't speak to feel or what guys find more fun. Plenty of people find WRs getting wide open to feel great and be tons of fun. Plenty of people want fast WRs to fly by any DB who is a few points slower. As if Richard Sherman or prime Revis, neither of which was a burner, didn't line up near the LOS on a regular basis. The fact is, the difference between 95 SPD and 88 SPD, if you were to translate the 40 times to distance, is far less than low threshold advocates think. In reality NFL WRs never just run by their man by 5-10 yards due to pure speed alone. Clowney ran literally step for step with Amari Cooper (4.42 spd) and has run down WRs from behind in-game. If low threshold leads to a simpler style of play where guys enjoy how wide open their guys get, more power to them. I don't judge what people find fun or what "feels" better to them.

But if you want something closer to realism, it's high threshold plain & simple, and it's tough to make an objective argument to the contrary.
It has always been my belief that setting this to zero actually gave you true-to-life speed differentials ( information i believe coming from the dev team directly ) and had not been aware of anything to contradict this not have I ever attempted to test this personally
( I have seen videos of past Maddens which claim to show faulty in speed/acceleration curves when compared to track split times but the potential for vast inaccuries in the methodology employed led me to question any resultant data )
However for the reasons you stated I'd never advocate using a zero setting .. largely ,I assumed ,as it would tend to hyper accentuate the games coverage flaws to an unacceptable degree and result in a points fest...but I blamed that on flaws in the gameplay rather than any misrepresentation of speeds


In striving to get realistic settings ( both from a gameplay and statistical viewpoint ) thus I've always tended to lower the threshold rather than raise it ( currently I have it at 45 which I feel at least mitigates against the speed boost Madden artificially gives to players in pursuit)

I'd agree with you wholeheartedly that often the speed of certain players , like Clowney , can be underappreciated as a result of the position they play however true sprinters speed is and always will be a commodity much coveted by NFL teams because it is a true game changer that defences can't ignore and this should be represented in Madden not eliminated entirely

Asking Richard Sherman ,despite his ability,to man up on a Tyreek Hill for lengthy stretches probably wouldn't go well without a player of Earl Thomas's quality and range at hand to patrol and a good pass rush to hurry the QB

After your post I will try a few games at higher levels and see for myself if the results are pleasing or whether to stay put but I'd be interested to know how other settings play into this ...game speed for instance ?

Last edited by briz1046; 01-24-2018 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:45 PM   #21
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Re: Min speed threshold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyone14
So I'm honestly confused now. So if high is best, why do so many slider sets have it at 50?

I just want my small, lightening quick receivers to run like they are supposed to and my cbs also? So then for me what would you suggest? Wouldn't 100 threshold make my speedy wr useless?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

To be clear, I never called higher thresholds better/best. Just objectively & irrefutably more realistic.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:54 PM   #22
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Re: Min speed threshold

Quote:
Originally Posted by briz1046
It has always been my belief that setting this to zero actually gave you true-to-life speed differentials ( information i believe coming from the dev team directly ) and had not been aware of anything to contradict this not have I ever attempted to test this personally
( I have seen videos of past Maddens which claim to show faulty in speed/acceleration curves when compared to track split times but the potential for vast inaccuries in the methodology employed led me to question any resultant data )
However for the reasons you stated I'd never advocate using a zero setting .. largely ,I assumed ,as it would tend to hyper accentuate the games coverage flaws to an unacceptable degree and result in a points fest.
In striving to get realistic settings ( both from a gameplay and statistical viewpoint ) thus I've always tended to lower the threshold rather than raise it ( currently I have it at 45 which I feel at least mitigates against the speed boost Madden artificially gives to players in pursuit)
I'd agree with you wholeheartedly that often the speed of certain players , like Clowney , can be underappreciated as a result of the position they play however true sprinters speed is and always will be a commodity much coveted by NFL teams because it is a true game changer that defences can't ignore and this should be represented in Madden not eliminated entirely

Asking Richard Sherman ,despite his ability,to man up on a Tyreek Hill for lengthy stretches probably wouldn't go well without a player of Earl Thomas's quality and range at hand to patrol and a good pass rush to hurry the QB

After your post I will try a few games at higher levels and see for myself if the results are pleasing or whether to stay put but I'd be interested to know how other settings play into this ...game speed for instance ?


I don't know that game speed plays a part in separation, I am dubious of that--but in terms of getting a bit closer to NFL player speeds, the tests I've seen suggest Slow speed is closer than Fast. This can change from Madden to Madden, as well, but for M18 data was pointing more toward Slow. Whether that's pleasing is more eye of the beholder. There's a number of 32-man leagues now who run on my settings, and I know for a fact some guys still prefer the feel of Normal or Fast game speed and think Slow feel sluggish. But that's just personal taste and has nothing to do really with how player speeds benchmark against the NFL. Hints of familiarity, as well--Madden historically is more of an arcade game than a simulation, and despite what some folks say they want, what they actually want may resemble more the arcade version than the sim version.


RE: Tyreek vs Sherman, etc etc. I assure you at high thresholds, speed still matters. You line up Sherman vs a 95-97 SPD CB all day, and he's going to have his moments. But just like in the NFL, the difference isn't that Tyreek would run 10 yds past Sherman off pure speed. Tyreek is an actual good WR unlike other guys who have speed & nothing else. So the threat of his cuts, etc can get DBs to turn their hips, and boom he's off to the races. He can get huge separation at times but it's not because he just lines up & runs past them. Google press stack technique--it basically takes away vertical speed almost regardless of how fast the CB is. But it opens up everything else underneath, etc.

I just threw a couple bombs in my last league game, in fact: one to 91 spd Jaelen Strong who had just barely a step over a slightly slower DB. Another to 95 SPD Will Fuller who put a double move on a guy and had the speed to pull away when the DB hesitated. The biggest myth & straw man argument is that high threshold = speed doesn't matter. Guys in my league still put a premium on drafting speed for a reason. High threshold = speed isn't overwhelmingly the thing that matters.
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Last edited by Aestis; 01-25-2018 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:33 AM   #23
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Re: Min speed threshold

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Originally Posted by cp22
I like your thought process. Can you share your settings?

These are my 32-man online CFM settings. They aren't designed for User v CPU, so I don't know how they'd really play there. I'd just look around at a few sets and find some that are similar.

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...r-sliders.html
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Old 01-30-2018, 04:27 PM   #24
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Re: Min speed threshold

I swear that I really can't tell the difference between 0 speed threshold and 100 speed threshold. In either case, my 96 WR is still blanketed by the 90 DB. and My RB still gets caught by a DT.
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