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DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

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Old 01-29-2018, 03:18 PM   #33
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

Before the XP system, everybody lambasted progression because it happened under the hood and there was no user control. Once the users got control, well it's not realistic... let's put it back under the hood! As with most things that are largely subjective, there is no right answer.

That said, I like the XP system because as was mentioned earlier in the thread... you can use it however you'd like. The CPU does a pretty good job of spending XP immediately on things that make sense... AWR / PRC if they are really low.. then onto position-specific stuff like block shedding or catching. I've never seen the CPU banking 200,000XP to bring some RB from 84 to 99 speed. The CPU rosters don't appear to get radically out of control with 96 OVRs running around everywhere by their first free agent contract negotiations. If you see some outliers here or there... hop in and edit a correction. It's your sandbox. Knock down whatever sandcastles the CPU built if you don't like them. More control is always better then less... But then again, I'm not one who gives two squirts about "immersion" either. I know I'm a grown man playing a video game... I'm not going to be fooled into thinking I'm really Bill Belicheck or Ted Thompson because this player developed this way and that player developed that way. I don't mind these systems having warts, so long as I can surgically remove the ones that bother me.

That said, I think it makes sense that players should maybe have some caps in place for certain attributes... for example, you could theoretically give that 3rd string TE a full boost to 99 speed if you intentionally spammed him all the XP you could... now we're into extreme territory... but it's possible. Maybe tie it into the slow/normal/quick/superstar levels... where guys on the slow side have lower caps.
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Old 01-29-2018, 07:45 PM   #34
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

One thing the XP system overlooks is how to award players experience when they don't fill up the stat column. Much is wrapped around focus training and goals. Or at times it's done backwards, such as backup OL getting huge XP gains.

A tamed down XP system in conjunction with an under-the-hood progression system would allow guys to progress at different rates, letting younger players develop on the bench, while still rewarding players who are putting up great numbers.
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Old 01-29-2018, 07:55 PM   #35
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

I don't remember very many people complaining about wanting user control of progression. I know that some people want statistical success of a player to affect progression more than it did(a mistake IMO) but I'm pretty sure that most people still wanted it to be under the hood and affected by coaching staffs, schemes, trainers, as well as other unseen factors like work ethic.
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Old 01-29-2018, 08:23 PM   #36
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

Yeah I just feel like user control doesn't mesh with a sports franchise. IMO if someone wanted that, then that would be what editing a player is for.

The old progression system was bad because the potential rating was pretty static so you would know all the outcomes by your 3rd franchise. I definitely agree that needed to be improved.

I am a fan of chaotic progression because it emulates realistic outcomes but still gives that team building challenge. Not to mention how easy it would be to code and build features off of it. I feel like that is central to a franchise mode.
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:10 PM   #37
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

I guess at the end of the day nobody is forcing me to spend the XP in a way that that I find inaccurate or goofy or exploitative or whatever. I'll let it rot unused on guys that I don't feel deserve it. Now I understand that CPU rosters will have guys getting boosted in sometimes unwanted ways... but let's face it... any and every revamped system is going to have CPU teams progressing players that might seem wrongheaded or buggy or whatever. It's always going to be a matter of opinion. At the end of the day, I prefer the system that let's me progress guys in ways I find appropriate... I find the idea of "well, go back and edit it when the CPU does something you don't like" to be a step backwards. I'd rather the AI, and the wonderkids programming this AI for the last 20+ years, to be left out of this equation as much as possible.
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Old 01-30-2018, 12:15 AM   #38
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

Hmm I feel the AI is just as bad with XP though, with the exception that it is possible to spend your own XP points realistically to an extent. I agree that things getting too complicated would probably not do well with the quality of programming we get for franchise right now lol. But that is why I feel like simple percentages that can emulate real life and keep that fresh feeling is much better and an easy way to implement without screwing anything up.

Agree to disagree though, I definitely see some of your points with control and such
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Old 01-30-2018, 08:06 AM   #39
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

I wouldn't mind an under-the-hood, cloud-of-war, rely on not always reliable scouting reports type of system... so long as the ability to edit anything and everything wasn't taken away. Just that in the big picture, I don't have any faith in them delivering on such a system... and least one that wouldn't be horribly borked for the first three or four release cycles.

I personally haven't had any glaring issues with the CPU spending the XP in stupid ways... at least not in ways that wouldn't make sense in any system. The AI seems to emphasize the mental aspects of the game first, such as AWR and PRC, which I think makes sense... as every former player talking head guru on the boobtube has told us for decades that one of the the biggest jumps a rookie has to make is mental... adjusting to the increased complexity of the pro game. Not to mention these guys are full grown men once they enter the league, and the current XP system compensates for that, making things like speed and strength incredibly expensive to upgrade in comparison to the mental side of the attributes.

I can understand not liking the XP system because it is obviously gimmicky and very much an RPG video game mechanic... but I don't so much agree with disliking it because it produces horribly unrealistic results. Maybe a case can be made for XP being harder to earn, to dull the edge on speed of progression... but I don't think the entire system is flawed from the results standpoint.
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:16 AM   #40
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

I agree that XP can be too easy to earn. Especially for year end awards and pro bowl. To me this is the RPG gimmickry. I’d be fine with YE awards just adding to legacy and confidence. And that would go a long way to reducing XP spamming.

I would never want a system that makes player development go under the hood or random, but I would definitely be in favor of rating caps for each attribute. As it is now you draft for physical attribs like speed cuz you can rank up the rest. So go grab that WR with sub 4.3 speed and stone hands cuz you can spam xp and make him a catch rating freak. Cap his catch rating at 80 and maybe he’s nothing more than a KR and WR depth. I’m not sure I’d say that caps make things more realistic but it creates value for players with high attribute rankings in other categories and that would give the game more depth and players would have more specific roles or fit schemes relatively better than other players (without the option to spam xp and make them fit the scheme)
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