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DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

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Old 01-24-2018, 04:29 PM   #1
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DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

I have been having some trouble formulating my thoughts so I'm just going to write out whatever comes to mind and see what others have to say.


So a player's overall updates in the base roster as players perform because Madden is doing their best to model their ratings after real life players. But ultimately these ratings are an educated guess. That is why the ratings take into account past performance, current performance, and a general feel of how good the player is (With some bias with the current controversial Cowboys ratings guy...).

My thoughts here are that Madden is playing "catch-up" to what these guys are actually "rated" in real life. For example, Player A comes into the season as an 80, but shows amazing improvement and at the end of the season he is a 90. In Madden, he might go up every few weeks by a couple points (maybe 80 -> 84 -> 87 -> 90). But really, he was a 90 the whole time, it just took some time to realize that. Generally, we realize that from the player's performances, but my argument is that he put in good performances because he was a 90, not that he became a 90 because of his performances. So his true overall was a 90 the whole time. I think the way this works introduces biases into people's thinking about CFM ratings/progression.

So I think a lot of people (not so many on this board but this is a hardcore franchise board) think that if they have a 65 ovr in franchise that rushes for 2,000 yards, he should 100% of the time boost up to a 90 overall.

The problem I have with this is that in the base online H2H rosters, we are trying to mimic the up to date league rosters, so players go up for good performances. But in franchise, once the franchise is started, that OVR which may be a guess, becomes the true overall. So those performances that 65 OVR RB put in were as a 65 OVR RB. If it happened in real life then maybe he was a 90 all along and he was incorrectly rated. But in franchise, those performances are being put in as a true 65.

And just because a player has good performances does not mean he will actually improve as a player. Players improve because of coaching, experience, practice, watching tape, whatever. Not because they got 100 yds instead of 90 and scored 3 TDs when they were already winning by 54.

This is my issue with XP is that it has no basis in reality, among other things. We are coming from a coach's/GM's perspective in CFM and coaches do not distribute XP, run up the score in the 4th to get more XP, are not guaranteed to get a lot of XP by focusing on their stars, etc. It could work if you are playing as a player but that's about it. I can go on all day about my problems with XP but I'd like to focus on the thought process around overall.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:57 PM   #2
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

My thoughts are much in line with yours in that we enter a CFM with ( as far as we and EA can at least) theoretically accurately rated players and progression should be based on how players improve ( or regress for that matter) in real life NOT based necessarily on how they accrue stats on the field
This is why I advocate ( as does every serious overhaul suggestion I've seen that doesn't remove XP entirely) increasing XP based in practice adding training camps and even simulated film sessions and de-emphasising in-game goals and stats
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Old 01-25-2018, 01:02 AM   #3
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

Yeah I really don't like the in game goals I feel like it leads to stat whoring and overall unrealistic gameplay even for those that don't necessarily intend to play like that. If you see you need Gronk to get 60 yards you will probably target him a couple more times if he is close but that really doesn't translate to real life at all.
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Old 01-25-2018, 01:30 AM   #4
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

I personally find it strange that any sim players, solo or in leagues, play with any of those goal banners on during a game or even know what goals their players are supposed to achieve. I just play the game without having any idea about any of that meta knowledge.

Unfortunately, IMO of course, I think that they will never get rid of the current XP implementation as I would imagine that a lot of CFM heads actually enjoy having total control of the development of their players, despite it's unrealistic nature. They probably wouldn't shift the XP to be practice/study based because of their philosophy about maximizing User agency by allowing people to "progress" their players primarily by just having fun playing games.

I think the most we can hope for is an additional progression method that does maybe hides the OVR from the User and definitely adds coaches, trainers and all the other aspects that we would want, but I'm not optimistic that the development resources would be allocated for something that may only be used by a niche segment of the mode.
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Old 01-25-2018, 06:45 AM   #5
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

Perhaps you could have a dual rating system, True and Perceived OVR.

True OVR - The actual ratings of the player. These are behind the scenes and govern what the player is capable of.

Perceived OVR - This is what we see. It takes a players True OVR and distorts it based on a number of factors. Production, confidence, coaching support, time in system, personality, you name it... basically the OVR can be skewed positively or negatively based on surrounding influences.

Idea here being that the True OVR is never touched by the user, we don't see it, we can't change it, nothing we do really impacts it. A potential and progression curve is randomly assigned and that is that.

Meanwhile, every little thing impacts the Perceived OVR. Awards, stats, schemes, everything plays a role in how players are viewed. The roster becomes more fluid and every CFM is different.

Guys who perform well during contract seasons get big paydays. Sure he may only be the third-best TE on your team, but he's paid like a #1.

Players who excel in one teams system may tank in another. Ouch, shouldn't have given him that multi-year deal.

The greatest QB in the history of the game, or would be greatest, never plays a snap. He was a late round prospect who never even played in a preseason game. Sits in FA with a 60 Perceived OVR.... while his True OVR is 90. Hangs around a season or two, then retires.

Anything could happen, each CFM takes a different path. And no more XP
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:33 AM   #6
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

I despise these weekly ratings updates... IMO, they just show there is very little of what we can call a formula in the ratings. They're simply one man's opinion.
As late as Madden 16, fbg rerated the entire rosters based on actual DATA obtained from football websites, and the ratings were much more stretched out.
The difference in gameplay was pretty drastic using those rosters, and felt so much more true to life.
EA was in contact with the roster maker, and I guess talks fell apart. Since then, he's fallen off the radar, and I don't think he's doing anything with them anymore.
I had high hopes EA would get this guy on their team, and we could have some meaningful ratings.

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Old 01-25-2018, 09:38 AM   #7
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

And I'm SURE these yearly Madden ratings releases are a HUGE part of their marketing gimmick...that's why we see so many over rated players....fear of pissing the league off plays a part I'm sure.

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Old 01-25-2018, 09:47 AM   #8
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Re: DISCUSSION: My problem with Overall in online vs CFM

What's puzzing is I remember on Madden 07 or 08, ratings did change in CFM (single player of course) based on performances that you're players put in. This is what has always bothered me with this move that we've seen that puts CFM mode more toward somewhat of a RPG where you increase the ratings yourself. I've aways felt like being able to control your own ratings was just weird to me.

I get that you earn XP based on performances, but to me, ratings NEED to be more fluid and you need to see the ups and downs from week to week in order to see a season of results that looks more closely to what we see in the NFL.
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