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Jump into a Madden game, or stick with 2K5?

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Old 02-15-2018, 04:02 PM   #65
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Re: Jump into a Madden game, or stick with 2K5?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykelmosinee
1 example of having nobody to block is your defense? Lol

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1 example that took me 3 minutes to find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjcheezhead
I don’t have the time or desire to find examples. It’s more about how blocking actually works. Madden doesn’t allow you to truly read blocks. It rarely matters if a defender is being blocked to the outside or inside because when the dice roll says they can beat the block they get completely clean runs at the ball carrier.
That's a fair point. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not Madden has a pocket that LOOKS realistic, which is what I was addressing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjcheezhead
APF more so than 2k5 ...and ps2 madden to an extent..had blockers hitting defenders and driving them in various directions. You could keep the blockers between the defender and the ball carrier by reading the blocks properly. They rarely came off blocks completely clean.

An AI missed block in any game is acceptable, it happens. It’s about the overall strategy well programmed blocking provides.
The problem with 2k5, which I brought up before, is the SCRIPTED nature of such interactions. Run blocks hit. Nearly every time (based on what I remember).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madden08PCgmr
Shall I post my left guard (Boss Iupati.. 99OVR, arguably the best LG in '17) pulling on stretch runs and whiffing at least 1/3 of the time, literally blocking no one?
(a) I was addressing the pocket.
(b) What difficulty?
(c) Madden DOES have a stupid dice roll effect that causes players to miss blocks (especially if you are playing the CPU and you have the difficulty set to All Madden). Madden also has a far superior pocket than 2k5, and is far less scripted (because of it's random nature and far greater assignment numbers for defenders).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madden08PCgmr
I 'like' the open field misses better..

FB V LB/S, or lineman out on screen passes.... one man to block.. ONLY man AI would logically pick to block... inexplicably misses, costing you 6..
Does this happen on all difficulty? Does it only happen in man vs CPU?


If the answer to either of those is yes, then the ENGINE is NOT the problem. Instead, the problem is the CHEATING Madden puts in their code to compensate for the user's ability to outwit the CPU. It's a really stupid design decision that THEY think is a good idea.

(You'll note the CPU doesn't have the nearly the same whiff problem. Somehow their blocking is much better... ).






Bottom line:

Madden owns 2k5 in terms of the pocket in passing plays. I'm sorry that ruins everyone's nostalgia, but it's just a fact.


Madden USER AI will miss blocks. Somehow, magically, the CPU doensn't. Why? It's that EA/Tiburon for some reason believes it is better to sacrifice NFL realism than challenge. It's a STUPID idea, I agree, and it's a problem. That does not mean 2k5 is better at line/blocking logic. It just means Madden developers have a priority problem.




One solution they could do: take the emphasis off of awareness SIGNIFICANTLY, and instead create better physical differentials. Instead of a linemen missing a block because he is blind, they can have him be too slow to get to the defender.

Zane Beadles knew who he had to block every time. He just got physically beat over and over due to his lack of quickness.

*If I'm right here, then adjusting awareness ratings should fix the problem, including compensating for the difficulty level's destruction of awareness for the user.

Last edited by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞; 02-15-2018 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:59 PM   #66
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Re: Jump into a Madden game, or stick with 2K5?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
Bottom line:

Madden owns 2k5 in terms of the pocket in passing plays. I'm sorry that ruins everyone's nostalgia, but it's just a fact.
You think far too much of yourself if thats what you believe happened here.. or perhaps you don't know what that that word truly means?
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:24 PM   #67
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Re: Jump into a Madden game, or stick with 2K5?

Once Madden untethers the offensive line from the defensive lines, I'll give them some credit. Even then, the fact that this is even still debatable is sad.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:47 PM   #68
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Re: Jump into a Madden game, or stick with 2K5?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykelmosinee
1 example of having nobody to block is your defense? Lol

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My point was HE HAD NOBODY TO BLOCK...I'd have issues if he did this while a defensive player blew past him, like they do in Madden.

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Old 02-15-2018, 10:44 PM   #69
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Re: Jump into a Madden game, or stick with 2K5?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageInfinite
Once Madden untethers the offensive line from the defensive lines, I'll give them some credit. Even then, the fact that this is even still debatable is sad.
I know I will be criticized for this because it's a uncommon belief in the main forum, but I do see OL DL battles won on the DL line side when the DL has a higher rating vs the OL they go up against. It's one two three, shred in some cases. Does it happen every play, no. I just don't see tethering on every OL DL matchup every play and I am in season 5.

Coaching adjustments help a lot in this area on both sides, user and cpu, plus using a slider set you are comfortable with.

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Old 02-16-2018, 12:51 AM   #70
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Re: Jump into a Madden game, or stick with 2K5?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageInfinite
Once Madden untethers the offensive line from the defensive lines, I'll give them some credit. Even then, the fact that this is even still debatable is sad.
Indeed it is. Tragic even
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:13 PM   #71
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Re: Jump into a Madden game, or stick with 2K5?

I seem to recall DB AI in that game from 2004/2008 being awful....no?


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Old 02-16-2018, 06:47 PM   #72
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Re: Jump into a Madden game, or stick with 2K5?

Yea, I've always praised the NFL2K games for what they did well... but as far as I recall, a challenging game against the CPU wasn't one of those things. It played better as a H2H game where you could 'user' away some of the shortcomings.

I think it has a somewhat mythic reputation nowadays because:
1) the evil EA empire created a monopoly
2) there was a lot of potential in the core game.

Lacking AI is easier to fix then Madden's current mashup of overdone animations shoehorned into a glitchy goof of a physics model. 2K had a nice balance... animations were limited, but the results at game speed were very believable. Madden is the opposite, lots of individually gorgeous animations that don't seem to truly link together in a believable way nearly as often as they should. Gang tackling in Madden can still be a sloppy mess of two defenders doing literally nothing because the first defender lost to the "trucking" animation.
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