Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future

[Devaster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nunyerbiz

I don't think the problem is the XP coinage system, it's primarily how the AI spends it, how that enhances OVR and how that enhanced OVR impacts the AI roster decisions. Balance that better and a ton of the CPU roster mgmt wonkiness fades away. As far as immersion factor... you are your own worst enemy in that regard... make up as many storylines as you want in your head. You don't need an imaginary coordinator running an imaginary film session telling you that your imaginary wide receiver is now slightly better at route running. It's just as easy to make all that crap up yourself... "I've decided that my WR3 has worked hard in practice and deserves a route running bump, so that's where his XP pennies are headed." The game doesn't need layer upon layers of convolution, we all have imaginations for a reason... it's your sand box... take advantage. That said, I can understand wanting some things to feel truly randomized and out of your control... and if the AI was more tightly coded and position specific (see my 1st paragraph)... then you could let it handle progression for you and hand you some weekly news blurbs on player progress... But either way, the XP pennies aren't the issue.... it's how they are earned, how many are earned relative to attribute costs and how the AI uses them. All warts that can be tightened up via straightforward enough AI enhancements or mechanisms already in game (such as XP% slider). There is no reason the current system can't provide acceptable player progression, whether you want to peek behind the curtain or remain blissfully ignorant.

I think setting the progression to only at the end of the season is the optimal way to have the CPU spend and allocate XP. Otherwise the CPU ends up upgrading the cheapest stats every week which usually end up being AWR and PRC for many players. That isn't bad, but it also isn't very fair to the CPU. I have the CPU do it during the pre-season weekly, but then progression to end of season during the regular season. I saw the CPU upgrade a safety's Impact Blocking during the pre-season... Besides that though it is usually AWR/PRC/CAR/RTE/RLS. The cheapest and lowest skills for most positions.

I'd still like the CPU to have better logic in regards to a lot of aspects. Saw the CPU trade a 2nd round pick for a FB in the 80's in the pre-season or week 1. Come on now. That isn't realistic. Trade logic continues to be a big issue that is primarily based off a team's "needs" and OVR, rather than importance of positions. FB should hardly be weighted at all. I don't think I ever see K/P's traded and in the NFL you rarely see FB's traded. We shouldn't be able to trade for great rookie prospects with only 3 trade slot options, because that isn't realistic. Maybe opening up the number trade slots beyond 3 could make for some more dynamic trades. Opening up draft picks beyond the next season to two seasons beyond the current.

[Nunyerbiz]

Check out TDawg's XP thread in the slider subforum, he did some interesting work with modifying the positional XP sliders to avoid things like 89 OVR FBs. In order to really notice the difference, you have to sim ahead 10+ seasons to work the inflated 'real' NFL players out of the picture... but I like the way the CPU generated rosters have played out in my current CFM.

[triplechin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nunyerbiz

That said, I can understand wanting some things to feel truly randomized and out of your control... and if the AI was more tightly coded and position specific (see my 1st paragraph)... then you could let it handle progression for you and hand you some weekly news blurbs on player progress... But either way, the XP pennies aren't the issue.... it's how they are earned, how many are earned relative to attribute costs and how the AI uses them. All warts that can be tightened up via straightforward enough AI enhancements or mechanisms already in game (such as XP% slider). There is no reason the current system can't provide acceptable player progression, whether you want to peek behind the curtain or remain blissfully ignorant.

I agree that the system could be fitted to model somewhat realistic progression if it was really fine tuned, but I think the fundamental design and function of XP does not have that purpose. It would be easier and more functional to tear it down and implement a quality system that could be built upon (not to mention it should be much easier to work with)

[khaliib]

Quote: Originally Posted by triplechin

I agree that the system could be fitted to model somewhat realistic progression if it was really fine tuned, but I think the fundamental design and function of XP does not have that purpose. It would be easier and more functional to tear it down and implement a quality system that could be built upon (not to mention it should be much easier to work with)

I’m one of those that looks to find ways to utilize what’s implemented, but the core focus/functionality of the XP mechanism is not meant for the Sim experience in CFM.
- it’s for quick player Rank-Up like MUT

[Nunyerbiz]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

I’m one of those that looks to find ways to utilize what’s implemented, but the core focus/functionality of the XP mechanism is not meant for the Sim experience in CFM. - it’s for quick player Rank-Up like MUT

I don't claim to be a MUT expert, I've done one ranked draft and played all of three games, but there isn't any progression or player XP at all in the mode as far as I am aware. The players are statically rated Pokemon cards that you can buy/sell/trade. While I think there are certain exceptions where special cards can be "upgraded" it has nothing to do with the XP model in CFM. If it was developed for MUT, they never put it in.

Also... nobody can define "sim experience" to any kind of consensus. There was gnashing and wailing about how unrealistic it all was when the CPU did the progression behind the curtain... it's unrealistic now that it's currency based... and I promise it will be considered unrealistic if and when it's overhauled.

[triplechin]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

I’m one of those that looks to find ways to utilize what’s implemented, but the core focus/functionality of the XP mechanism is not meant for the Sim experience in CFM. - it’s for quick player Rank-Up like MUT

Agreed. I see that some of the competitive guys like it because they can put up stats in their online CFM and then those players get better, but it really just doesn't jive with sim/realism. It is difficult from the developer's standpoint because there are probably competitive guys who prefer XP because they get that advantage but it does stand in the way of anyone looking for a more realistic system and a challenge to build a team in franchise.

[Nunyerbiz]

Quote: Originally Posted by triplechin

Agreed. I see that some of the competitive guys like it because they can put up stats in their online CFM and then those players get better, but it really just doesn't jive with sim/realism. It is difficult from the developer's standpoint because there are probably competitive guys who prefer XP because they get that advantage but it does stand in the way of anyone looking for a more realistic system and a challenge to build a team in franchise.

I understand that the general consensus around here is not liking the XP system. While I'm not necessarily betrothed to it, I like that it gives me freedom. If you want a challenge .... just don't spend the XP.... spend 30 % of the XP you earn while the CPU spends it all ... turn all the XP sliders down to 10%... waste the XP on attributes that will not help the player in question or boost his OVR. The tools are there to pile on as much challenge as you like. I mean... not liking it because it's gimmicky ... well sure I guess. But you can do all kinds of very basic things to make it challenging...

[MornyHan]

It doesn’t take much to add some immersiveness into CFM. You don’t have to change gameplay of any sorts. Just some more in depth content on the front end.

Adding coordinators to your staff in Owner mode. Real NFL coordinators use their teams playbooks. The generated ones are randomly selected a generic one. Your head coach offers different levels of XP boosts, OVR boosts, confidence boosts, etc.

Bring back the old trade block where you can select what positions or picks you want for a player, and generate leads based off of that.

As a programmer, all of these things should be very minuscule. Programming video games is not terribly difficult. That’s why they’re the lesser paying of software programmers.

It just baffles me that many people believe in these lame excuses such as yearly cycle, it doesn’t make money, etc.

The only legitimate excuse is EA Games/Sports is a terrible company. Do these guys on the Madden dev team want to create a better experience for us guys? Of course they do. Do their bosses care to go forward with these ideas that offer no increased revenue? Hell no. That’s been EA for years.







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