Home

Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future

This is a discussion on Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future within the Madden NFL Football forums.

Go Back   Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Football
eFootball 2022 Review
FIFA 22 Review
Hot Wheels: Unleashed Review
Poll: What's more important to you, when the time comes to purchase a game? (Click to vote)
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-27-2018, 05:57 PM   #97
Rookie
 
mjd113's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: May 2012
Re: Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future

In regards to the CPUs usage of XP I think itís a big part of the AI team building concept.

Try starting a CFM without Cincinnati cutting Joe Mixon and replacing him with a 68 ovr RB.

Watch KC going into the offseason with 78 ovr Mahomes, 80 ovr Smith, and then sign 82 ovr Teddy Bridgewater.

The entire AI Team Building concept is non existent.

And people ask for teams to play/build like they do in real life. The flip side of that is when Manning would leave the Colts and the next QB would act the exact same way as he did in regards to the playclock and audibles.

My opinion of XP is not positive.

In real life. Players get better, and then preform better.

In Madden, players preform better, and then in return ďget betterĒ.

I donít know what the right answer is, I donít even know what my answe would be anymore. All I know is whatís going on right now isnít it.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
mjd113 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 06:54 PM   #98
MVP
 
Daonlyjmo7's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: May 2014
Location: San Francisco, California
Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMan
I feel like this sentence is going to get picked out without people listening to the interview to get the full quote, so in the interest of accurate discussion:


Thanks for the clarification. Love what he said. Gives me... hope? What is this feeling?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
__________________
Check out my dynasty: Rise to the Top: The Coaching Career of Joshua Morgan (NCAA 14)
Daonlyjmo7 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 06:58 PM   #99
Banned
 
OVR: 5
Join Date: Jan 2008
Re: Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunyerbiz
Well again, there is no such thing as "real" or "realistic" progression. At the very best, what you are asking for is a return to how it used to be done in Madden... and that's perfectly fine... but "realistic" isn't the word for it. A player has become 2% better at running a route... a player can now recognize run v pass 1% more efficiently... that's all made up nonsense. Either it's my nonsense or I trust the AI team at Tiburon to provide the nonsense. Seeing that for the last 20 years, AI coaches manage the clock like chimps with closed head injuries... yea, I'll take my nonsense. But I can understand the appeal of things being random / out of direct control.... and if they could pull it off... I wouldn't be automatically against it.
Not true. Madden has never had a realistic progression system. So we would not be "returning to how madden used to do it". There are real life variables to progression on an actual football team. Those variables can be abstracted and simulated in a video football game. Madden has never even tried to do this.
bucky60 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 09:12 PM   #100
*ll St*r
 
roadman's Arena
 
OVR: 34
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Midwest
Posts: 25,730
Re: Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future

XP or no XP, there is a lot of different sources with a lot of different ideas on what they want in CFM.

Rex did a Twitter questionnaire, EA's messageboard has several pages of suggestions, I'm sure Shopmaster submitted his request, Rex and John White have Duece's ideas, SimStandard submitted their suggestions and I am sure OS was looked at too, plus, our very own Millenium had a survey on Twitter.

There are a lot of ideas and wants and it will be interesting to see which direction the developers go in.

Based on that so many wants and needs, some people might not be happy with all the moves.
roadman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2018, 09:13 PM   #101
MVP
 
Nunyerbiz's Arena
 
OVR: 4
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,479
Re: Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky60
There are real life variables to progression on an actual football team. Those variables can be abstracted and simulated in a video football game. Madden has never even tried to do this.
Even if a EA Dev was reading this, and they desperately wanted to improve player progression, that quoted sentence is so vaguely worded as to be meaningless. What is a real life variable that impacts how actual football players progress? How can these variables be measured? How can these variables be insolated as to prove correlation to a performance gain / decrease?

I suppose we can all agree that telling your player to drink three protein shakes a day and pump iron for three hours could be measureably shown to improve strength. But that isn't the issue. How do you "abstract and simulate" a variable that can be shown to improve or reduce instincts? mental acuity?

They call these things "intangibles" for a reason. If the claim is that you can *realistically* model the improvement / reduction of intangibles based on real world measureables, I say that's nonsense. So long as things like AWR and PRC and PUR and everything else that can't be measured at the NFL Combine is still part of the player ratings, then "progressing" is going to be nonsense guesswork with zero basis is measureable reality.
Nunyerbiz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 02-27-2018, 11:28 PM   #102
Banned
 
Big FN Deal's Arena
 
OVR: 33
Join Date: Aug 2011
Re: Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future

I took bucky60 to be referring to real world things like coaching/staffs, systems, injuries, etc being represented in the game, to provide context and a cumulative effect to dictate progression/regression. The main point being replicating real parameters like those, creates defacto realistic progression/regression vs just having random progression/regression. Frankly I'm surprised that even needs to be spelled out considering that's what other games have done and still do to achieve "real/realistic" progression and other things. So again the base premise for a myriad of Madden's unrealistic football ills is to focus on replicating real world processes that inherently create realistic results vs trying to create realistic results.

Also to that part about if a dev was reading this, it's unfortunate that a dev would want or need anyone to spell out any of this in detail, considering other games, even other EA games, have done some version of this before.

Last edited by Big FN Deal; 02-27-2018 at 11:42 PM.
Big FN Deal is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 12:54 AM   #103
MVP
 
Nunyerbiz's Arena
 
OVR: 4
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,479
Re: Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future

You can add as many additional abstraction layers on top as you like... Mental ratings and the progression of mental ratings can only be guesswork on top of some more guesswork. Nobody knows why players perform well for Bill Belichick and nobody knows why the last 15 combined head coaches of the Lions and Browns are awful at the same thing. If you want to add modifiers and addtional math and hiring the "good" coordinator gives you one brownie point and running that drill gives you another brownie point... then knock yourself out... your starting point is still just a shot in the dark.

I'm not arguing against adding a coaching layer and a practice layer and a "he is getting sued by his ex-wife" layer and whatever else strikes your fancy. If you want such things for the immersion factor or additional gameplay depth/challenge... then cool... no argument from me... might even be fun! I just don't agree that such a system inherently provides results closer to reality when you can't measure the reality of "player progression" to begin with. That was the original assertion, right? That variables existed that could yield more realistic progression outcomes?
Nunyerbiz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 09:25 AM   #104
AWFL Commish
 
Aestis's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 992
Re: Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunyerbiz
You can add as many additional abstraction layers on top as you like... Mental ratings and the progression of mental ratings can only be guesswork on top of some more guesswork. Nobody knows why players perform well for Bill Belichick and nobody knows why the last 15 combined head coaches of the Lions and Browns are awful at the same thing. If you want to add modifiers and addtional math and hiring the "good" coordinator gives you one brownie point and running that drill gives you another brownie point... then knock yourself out... your starting point is still just a shot in the dark.

I'm not arguing against adding a coaching layer and a practice layer and a "he is getting sued by his ex-wife" layer and whatever else strikes your fancy. If you want such things for the immersion factor or additional gameplay depth/challenge... then cool... no argument from me... might even be fun! I just don't agree that such a system inherently provides results closer to reality when you can't measure the reality of "player progression" to begin with. That was the original assertion, right? That variables existed that could yield more realistic progression outcomes?


Philosophically, you are 100% on point. But there are ways to get closer to the mark using only the tools at a dev team's disposal, which is effectively just building a framework for controlling ratings movement over time. Don't let the impossibility of perfection paralyze you from improvement.
__________________
RFF
Twitch Channel

Commissioner
After Work Football League
(Xbox Series S/X)
AWFL Discord
AWFL Daddyleagues
Aestis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Football »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:43 PM.

Top -