Rex's Reflections on Madden 18 and the Future

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

Thanks T4VERTS for presenting an interview style that actually allows them to feel comfortable to speak, which can reveal a lot of info if one really listens. Not if because I know they will do many more interviews with you, but when you do another interview a major area that rarely gets brought up that Madden struggles with and I believe is a key clog into the Replayability of their Core CFM Users is “Customization”. I don’t know if it’s Legacy issues, feature stability or what, but the one thing other Sports games have at the heart of any comparison discussion against Madden, is that they invest heavily into Customization element to allow the end User to do some things to create that Replayablilty themselves. - something simple like a User Custom Cam - providing a color pallet mechanism to adjust Relocation Team colors etc. - Global Ratings and/or equipment Editor Madden just lacks in this area to its detriment compared to every other sports title, both past and present. When I say Customization, I’m speaking of the genre standards more so than some of the elaborate wishes that many tend to request. A greater “ User Sandbox” has to be injected into CFM going forward, even if it’s done as CDL’s.

Quote: Originally Posted by T4VERTS

I will try and remember this for next time. I have heard things in passing that makes me think the issue is the NFL doesn't like to not have control over things and so giving the player too much customization wouldn't be something they like. It makes sense when we look how the NFL handles things in it's own house as far as having complete control, but I don't know for sure if this is true or not. Next time an interview is announced make sure to mention this again so I don't forget.

For me and many others things like a global ratings editor and easy User control of all 32 teams in a cloud based solo player CFM would be huge and on the surface doesn't seem like it would be the kind of thing that the NFL would care about trying to control.

[T4VERTS]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

For me and many others things like a global ratings editor and easy User control of all 32 teams in a cloud based solo player CFM would be huge and on the surface doesn't seem like it would be the kind of thing that the NFL would care about trying to control.

I'd agree global adjustments to in game ratings and settings are probably more feasible than the customization of team appearance and such. Again, this isn't something I have specific info on just drawing conclusions based on things I have heard in passing over time. I do know more control for commissioner global setting was something that made it's way to the CFM through some information gathering we did here early in the cycle and it sounds like they have heard that a decent amount from other palces too.

[Nunyerbiz]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

It's kind of messed up that I'm happy that the metrics seem to show that Longshot was a flop in terms of bringing in a lot of new Users, but we need all the suits to realize that the CFM heads should never be ignored in any development cycle.

Who would have thought that people want to actually play the game and not watch a poorly produced movie that is kind of about the game?

I understand that other sports games have had done these these 'story mode' add ons as well... But the general vibe I got from the internets is that they are played kind of as a lark...when you want a break from the standard stuff and that the game was going to be purchased anyways.

As far as where they need to focus their development efforts... More depth to CFM is something most of us would love to see and it's nice that this appears to be tacitly acknowledged. That said, I still think the core game itself is just about reaching it's development limits. Their current system of trying to wedge heavy motion capture into something resembling real world physics is just a mishmash overall... One that has never served either master very well.

If they would refocus the game on user control, physics and momentum with a reduced motion capture set, I think it would make tweaking the gameplay easier in the long run. Let the video game do what it does best... which is not and never will be simulating reality... The strength of the video game is the control inputs / reaction time of the user, that's what should draw most of us in... not whether it looks exactly like some Sunday afternoon broadcast. With sports games over the last generation or two of consoles, it seems the emphasis on making the video game it's own art form, as a unique take on reality, has been sidelined... This has been replaced by making sure David Carr has a unique release point compared to Joe Flacco or CP3's crossover has different animation frames from Kylie's. I find the priorities to be screwy. More powerful hardware has led to more and more of the action taken from the end user and put in the hands of CPU controlled animations... Seems to be the antithesis of why I play the games to begin with.

[Toupal]

There is only soooo much they can do for MUT.

I hate to get my hopes up, but I do not see how they can’t go “all out” of franchise mode.

Hopefully their ideas line up with the community’s ideas, and we are not forced to suffer through something no one asked for.

[SageInfinite]

Of course people are going to "seem" happy with gameplay when CFM is lacking so much. Doesn't mean gameplay is great, or even good. To me it's satisfactory but still lacking so much.

Ai is terrible at times, movement and animations are still sub par, physics are still wonky and inconsistent, so I can never call Madden's gameplay good. Most people just enjoy video game football, and Madden is all we have for the most part. EA/Tiburon banks on that. Madden is still better than it's been, but for me that isn't saying much.

[jfsolo]

On thing that I will say toward Rex's point about gameplay vs CFM improvements, is that I've seen more CFM people angrily comment about the trade glitch than any gameplay issue. Our little corner were on them about the QB Scrambling, Wind punt issues, and pancake glitch, but all these people that I've never seen in Rex's and John's timeline were rolling out about the trade glitch.

[howboutdat]

Quote: Originally Posted by SageInfinite

Of course people are going to "seem" happy with gameplay when CFM is lacking so much. Doesn't mean gameplay is great, or even good. To me it's satisfactory but still lacking so much. Ai is terrible at times, movement and animations are still sub par, physics are still wonky and inconsistent, so I can never call Madden's gameplay good. Most people just enjoy video game football, and Madden is all we have for the most part. EA/Tiburon banks on that. Madden is still better than it's been, but for me that isn't saying much.

Yes this is totally the case. Is the gameplay horrible? No, its not. Is it where it should be in 2018 on current gen consoles? No , its also not , its rather behind. I mean i could have a model T ford that will run 10 miles without breaking down and gets 5 miles to the gallon but not much more, but having that in 2018 ..... doesnt not mean its good, when you compare it to current technology. So the gameplay is still rather behind and it is very frustrating.

The gameplay has got to get much cleaner:

- much better physics ( not that kinetic energy smoother thing either, real physics engine) .what ever happened to gang tackles? Numerous people still get run over often that are bigger, when tackling its almost as if at times theres no such thing as weight nor momentum.Its a football game, the core things in football , relies on physics. Without good physics,im not sure how gameplay can be that good myself.

-player movement is still very bad ( from players able to still cover half the field with one player to players just making weird movements at all at times that makes no sense like almost stopping in their tracks)

- Players not reacting at all when pressing a button ( like go for ball, tackle , etc yet they stand still and do nothing at all and allow for huge plays)

Please dont day it dont happen ( this is not only case of it) - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/186708886

-Animations ruling the day to the point you almost feel like your watching more than your playing

-Blocking ( and blockers awareness of who to block) still needs alot of work

- Ratings in SIM mode still do not matter as much as they claimed ( 6 years into out online CFM have seen alot that says otherwise on this, including video below)

- Still a large lack of penalties in sim mode ( this is a gameplay thing)

I just can not call gameplay "good" with these issues at hand in 2018 .

Quote: Originally Posted by T4VERTS

Another note from this was inside the AI change comment he mentions that ratings kind of get the job done, but there needs to be more to differentiate and such. This is something the community has been interested in for a long time and should be happy to hear that there is interest in going beyond just ratings for players.

Until we can easily see ratings really matter ( other than speed and accel) no need in adding something else to the equation. I know they claimed it does , but im sorry I don't see strong evidence of this in this game. Just a couple examples :

Exhibit A: Watch # 99 , thats my LB - with 91 PRC, 90 AWR, 91 PUR, 88 TACKLE - http://www.daddyleagues.com/mbc/play...495/attributes

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/229645286

First thing here, this is not just some random thing, players react in strange ways like this more than once in a blue moon if you pay attention to it. This just happened last night. Dudes ratings are high enough he should of at least attempted to act like he saw the HB. Lets just over look the 3 guys around the HB , whom he somehow manages to just get by with no issue hardly .


Yet another example - https://twitter.com/PHTYT/status/956250127638855683


I know someone is going to say, well maybe they were throwing more to guy with higher drops in traffic more. If you just want to let this go unnoticed and use that as your reasoning, ok go for it. I guess in real like qbs dont throw to better wrs in traffic who they know will catch it, than the other guys. Because normally those better wrs in real life have the ball throw to them with guys covering them well or into coverage and still have less drops than lower rated wrs.

These are just a few things , i dont have time to video , highlight it all, play the game enough and you see it.


Im not doing this to bash , but to point out, there are still a ton of issues with gameplay. I dont know many guys in other online leagues where guys are that happy with gameplay. The reoccuring theme i hear from most is, cfm is stale and continues to be left behind, and gameplay still needs a ton of work. So , sorry im not able to just let the comment go without pointing out issues that the comment sorta seems to try to smooth over .Thats how we got here .


Also, last thing, even if they promise to do more for CFM next year, more than what is my question? More than this year, not hard to do that. More than two years ago when it was " the most resources ever " and "focus on franchise" when majority of it was mainly UI changes? Thats the real question and where they will find come madden 19. There is a very large part of that base ," that Madden 18 was propped up primarily by core users especially CFM" , that has stated , we are not buying new , preordering or anything for 19. They are going to have to come with alot more than they did even in the " most resources ever" year for their comments to be more than just lip service as we have gotten for so long. That the bottom line. Actions speak much louder than words.

[Toupal]

It bothers me from the get-go when he is asked about adding longevity and fixing CPU AI, he revolves his response around MUT Squads.
This video does not make me feel any better about the future of Franchise Mode.



4Verts: "Do you feel like madden has kept up with the immersion factor of CFM..."
Rex's Response: "Different Modes take different directions... I play MLB, I checked out 2k. There's things to like and dislike about each of them"
"If you asked me if I think we've kept up, I think with depth, ummm... probably not.
Immersion, uhh definitely not
Uh a robust player mode, absolutely not"

So there is a lot of work left to go to get Madden up to "best in class in every category"