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What's the future of Ratings in Madden?

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Old 02-18-2018, 07:24 PM   #9
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Re: What's the future of Ratings in Madden?

I made it to some NFL Free Agent Invites as a DB before back surgery at 24 yrs old ended the Pro dream.

With that, let me clarify some things dealing with coverages and routes etc...

99.9% of DB’s getting beat whether Man or Zone, at the NFL level is do to...
1) Eyes reading incorrectly and/or in the wrong place
2) Breakdown of fundamentals to try and make up for #1.

A DB covering a certain type of route better than another simply doesn’t exist.

Offensive players have tendencies and as a DB at the NFl level, you trying and anticipate that tendency on a play and “hope” the outcome is in your favor.

Dealing with ratings, every sports game, including APF, Backbreaker etc... uses numerical ratings (open a 360 game save and see for yourself) under the hood to drive the game.

As some have touched on, Madden’s Rating System needs to be expanded because there are several ratings that have a multi-function within the game.

So lowering the rating to improve this, often affects another of its functions that needed it to be higher (ie AWR, STR etc...)

Another example is ratings that are used to trigger animations, but at the same time affect the Win-chance % (ie Juke).
- here’s something about Juke Rating that really speak to this multi-use
- it also affects QB Pocket movement (something to do with before they expanded the rating system)

Separate Multi-use ratings and move Animation ratings to be seen as Traits on the front end.

Truth is most gamers are not interested in deep-diving into the game to see how it works, so having access to seeing ratings on the front end may be doing more harm to their enjoyment than necessary IMOP.

For CFM Sim Play as a Coach or Owner, I’ve suggested that all ratings be hidden from Front End View (optional turn on/off of course) and you have to base player value to your team/scheme etc by how/what he does in practice and games.

For your opponents (User or AI) part of the challenge and chess match is adjusting to give you the best chance of winning.
- this will force CFM gamers to really invest in “knowing” their roster through practice/games

Anyways, just my $.02 on the subject.
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:18 AM   #10
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Re: What's the future of Ratings in Madden?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khaliib
I made it to some NFL Free Agent Invites as a DB before back surgery at 24 yrs old ended the Pro dream.

With that, let me clarify some things dealing with coverages and routes etc...

99.9% of DB’s getting beat whether Man or Zone, at the NFL level is do to...
1) Eyes reading incorrectly and/or in the wrong place
2) Breakdown of fundamentals to try and make up for #1.

A DB covering a certain type of route better than another simply doesn’t exist.

Offensive players have tendencies and as a DB at the NFl level, you trying and anticipate that tendency on a play and “hope” the outcome is in your favor.

Dealing with ratings, every sports game, including APF, Backbreaker etc... uses numerical ratings (open a 360 game save and see for yourself) under the hood to drive the game.

As some have touched on, Madden’s Rating System needs to be expanded because there are several ratings that have a multi-function within the game.

So lowering the rating to improve this, often affects another of its functions that needed it to be higher (ie AWR, STR etc...)

Another example is ratings that are used to trigger animations, but at the same time affect the Win-chance % (ie Juke).
- here’s something about Juke Rating that really speak to this multi-use
- it also affects QB Pocket movement (something to do with before they expanded the rating system)

Separate Multi-use ratings and move Animation ratings to be seen as Traits on the front end.

Truth is most gamers are not interested in deep-diving into the game to see how it works, so having access to seeing ratings on the front end may be doing more harm to their enjoyment than necessary IMOP.

For CFM Sim Play as a Coach or Owner, I’ve suggested that all ratings be hidden from Front End View (optional turn on/off of course) and you have to base player value to your team/scheme etc by how/what he does in practice and games.

For your opponents (User or AI) part of the challenge and chess match is adjusting to give you the best chance of winning.
- this will force CFM gamers to really invest in “knowing” their roster through practice/games

Anyways, just my $.02 on the subject.

Hadn't really thought of the idea of separating ratings used in more than one situation but now it's mentioned that's a terrific idea ... basically for the reasons stated above

As far as hiding ratings ( or blurring them to some degree for the user In a manner similair to that outlined in the deuce douglas model) I think most people here would promote more customisation options in all areas .... I'm not sure how many would have , or be prepared to spend , hours grading or scouting each player on their roster in a pff way as would be required , but I'd be happy to see it for those that would
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:59 AM   #11
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Re: What's the future of Ratings in Madden?

Some good ideas here, I'm a sucker for deep dive discussons.

That said

1- Someone mentioned that they don't have much faith in changes. Although I understand the thought behind that, I think the last few years have shown us that Rex and a lot of the other guys do listen, it's just a matter of what gets cleared. Listen to the 4 verts interview from last week. Rex indicates that some of the poeple who put up barriers to legacy issue fixes seem to be out of the way. And he also indicated that changing the ratings system was probably on the horizon so there's hope.

2- My idea is basically a mutation of the All pro system where ratings were hidden and only traits were shown. I don't think the way the traits will play out HAVE to be anti sim. I'm a sim only player myself. It just depends on how things are tuned. Let's say we create a trait for the Alshon Jeffry/Larry Fitzgerald types who are threats on 50/50 balls. Well I think we all agree that 50-50 is maybe to high. (Madden last year) BUT if we

a- Kept current tuning on Aggressive catch/deep ball mechanics
b- Created a trait that boosted 50-50 percentage for one on one catches
c- Tuned cpu AI NOT to consistently allow WRs like Julio, AJ, and Alshon 50-50 chances in one on one coverage

We get a sim manifestation of how the game works while hiding ratings AND better AI response to this without breaking the game.
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Old 02-19-2018, 02:08 PM   #12
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Re: What's the future of Ratings in Madden?

simple option: remove the OVR rating. leave the rest the same.
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Old 02-19-2018, 02:11 PM   #13
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Re: What's the future of Ratings in Madden?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajra21
simple option: remove the OVR rating. leave the rest the same.
I wish it was that simple, there is too much hype about OVR between EA, the public and the players.
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Old 02-19-2018, 02:26 PM   #14
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Re: What's the future of Ratings in Madden?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadman
I wish it was that simple, there is too much hype about OVR between EA, the public and the players.

Yep

EA gets too much free publicity and uses the OVR too much in its oan marketing strategy to realistically ever expect it to ever disappear ... the best you can hope for us an option to hide it at the user level or only have it visible in certain screeens
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:28 PM   #15
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Re: What's the future of Ratings in Madden?

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Originally Posted by briz1046
Yep

EA gets too much free publicity and uses the OVR too much in its oan marketing strategy to realistically ever expect it to ever disappear ... the best you can hope for us an option to hide it at the user level or only have it visible in certain screeens
Everything was hidden at EA Play and you had to pick up the differences in players from playing.

People were so caught up in the improved gameplay and Player Differentiation, I stood around the consoles for about 2hr and heard not one person bring up player ratings, go figure!!!
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:49 PM   #16
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Re: What's the future of Ratings in Madden?

You need animations that effectively illustrate the ratings. Madden lacks animations and the logic behind the ratings is sub par. We've ended up with a "football" game that doesn't physically represent football. The rules are there (for the most part), but the nature of the physics within the game is lacking.

The game needs to be less binary and more like a game of Rock Paper Scissors. Rarely are things black/white in any lane of life; Football is no different. Stretching the ratings out may help, but without more animations that can effectively illustrate those differences it is a negligible pursuit, IMO. We've got this weird game here where some people want "simulation", which a lot perceive to be realism. Numerical ratings work for a "simulation" product because averages will work out at the end of the day.

I think it is curious that a segment of the community believe competitive H2H play is possible in a simulation because in a true simulation the user wouldn't actually have any control over what is happening, They would just be spectators.

I know a few people think 2K's abilities/badges are a cheesy, arcade feature. But they illustrate player differential in a way Madden has never achieved. Perhaps Madden's answer is simply stretching out the ratings and adding more animations, but when the mathematical logic of the game lacks the ability to legitimately think on a football level because of it's binary nature, it is still an insignificant pursuit.
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