Gut Foxx(MUT Players/League) Interview Clint Oldenburg

[roadman]

The first 15 to 20 minutes of this podcast is a good listen, I think after that, more MUT related questions.

We all know most of us don't use MUT that much, but they provided the interview with Clint and there are a few things to pick up early on in the interview.

[jfsolo]

Some observations: I like that Clint is very passionate about AI improvements. It's not going to improve at the rate that most simheads want, but I expect that we will take some solid steps forwards every year with him as the gameplay lead.

I also like that he puts the blame on the dev team for Users only running a handful of plays. There is always this debate about Users not playing real football, but he realizes that most players will always look for shortcuts and that it is on the game mechanics to make those players play a more realistic game.

From some of the things he said, just like with 2K basketball, defensive AI doesn't have everything it needs to counter all the offensive concepts in the game, and that some real life offensive concepts have to be left out for now because of those defensive holes.

I really didn't like the reason for not having receivers "sit down" in zones. It's part of football to have to read the adjustment that your receiver makes even if it isn't what you expected or anticipated he might do. More organic incompletions would result because of not being totally on the same page all the time, and that is a good thing IMO. Having it tied to a user controlled mechanic, especially in sim mode, is not how I want to it to function.

Yes, it needs to be tuned better, but I blame the players for not inherently realizing that many of the coaching adjustments were designed to be situational.

I know that some people may want them in CFM, but IMO most of the chems that are in MUT are totally arcade features.

Clint didn't say this, but I feel like Competitive and MUT play really, really have a negative affect on designing and tuning for realistic football.

[Devaster]

Didn't there used to be some CPU AI where if you ran the same play on offense or defense multiple times in a row or many times the CPU would figure it out and beat it? I remember this being the case back in M13 or maybe earlier versions. But since M15 I definitely don't remember the CPU AI doing that. You used to be punished for running the same plays over and over I think, but now you aren't.

Although I can understand the flip side to that. A slider for that kind of AI logic would be a welcomed one though.

[Ueauvan]

competitive and and MUT have a detrimental impact on anything resembling the actual game. no defensive holding for example... what ever happened to if its in the game its in the game. the competitive games on youtube are embarrassing to watch and should make EA and the NFL shudder, EA because of the flaws that manifest themselves and the NFL because the result is nothing like football. chemistry is great in MUT and totally support the idea but please sir can i have American Football with its pluses and minuses in total in cfm. and no needing to press a button each play to avoid a defensive player snoozing during plays in coach mode

[JoshC1977]

Quote: Originally Posted by Devaster

Didn't there used to be some CPU AI where if you ran the same play on offense or defense multiple times in a row or many times the CPU would figure it out and beat it? I remember this being the case back in M13 or maybe earlier versions. But since M15 I definitely don't remember the CPU AI doing that. You used to be punished for running the same plays over and over I think, but now you aren't. Although I can understand the flip side to that. A slider for that kind of AI logic would be a welcomed one though.

Yup. I know ncaa 14 has that ‘adaptive’ ai. They will change playcalling up to stop you OR they would keeping running the same principles until you stopped them. If ncaa had it, I’m sure older madden versions would have.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Nunyerbiz]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

Clint didn't say this, but I feel like Competitive and MUT play really, really have a negative affect on designing and tuning for realistic football.

I don't think the issue is the COMP takes away from SIM, it's that the core game as it has stood for the last decade simply isn't capable of delivering what SIM guys want. The game of football is momentum, weight and leverage... more so then speed or arm strength or anything else. The game isn't capable of representing this. It's a series of dozens of dice rolls per snap to rock-paper-scissors it's way to choosing animations that determine the outcome. The game will never be sim until they ditch the animation centered model and move to a physics centered model.

That said, I do believe that the COMP and SIM styles play noticeably different. After spending months in offline CFM, playing in COMP under MUT is a very different vibe.... it's opened up whizbang big play football... and I don't have a problem with that. Once a video game becomes a competitive 'e-sport' , then by practical definition it becomes it's own animal. Nobody gets deep into MUT wanting to be a good football player / strategist, they want to be a good Madden player / strategist... and there is nothing wrong with that.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoshC1977

Yup. I know ncaa 14 has that ‘adaptive’ ai. They will change playcalling up to stop you OR they would keeping running the same principles until you stopped them. If ncaa had it, I’m sure older madden versions would have. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

You sure about that? I honestly don't remember that being in NCAA.
I remember NCAA having linked plays, but it wasn't adaptive AI. Once your linked play was "charged" you just received bonuses.

There was the one Madden that had the terrible weapon feature. One of the weapons allowed the player to see parts of the opponent's play after x number of times it was ran. I remember it made Ray Lewis and Ed Reed an awesome tandem as they both had that ability for different parts of the field (Ray backfield, Ed WR routes)

I do not remember legit adaptive AI being present in any EA sports football game.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nunyerbiz

I don't think the issue is the COMP takes away from SIM, it's that the core game as it has stood for the last decade simply isn't capable of delivering what SIM guys want. The game of football is momentum, weight and leverage... more so then speed or arm strength or anything else. The game isn't capable of representing this. It's a series of dozens of dice rolls per snap to rock-paper-scissors it's way to choosing animations that determine the outcome. The game will never be sim until they ditch the animation centered model and move to a physics centered model. That said, I do believe that the COMP and SIM styles play noticeably different. After spending months in offline CFM, playing in COMP under MUT is a very different vibe.... it's opened up whizbang big play football... and I don't have a problem with that. Once a video game becomes a competitive 'e-sport' , then by practical definition it becomes it's own animal. Nobody gets deep into MUT wanting to be a good football player / strategist, they want to be a good Madden player / strategist... and there is nothing wrong with that.

I disagree. There IS something wrong with that and they should all be ashamed of themselves.