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Does madden want a realistic game?

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Old 02-28-2018, 12:18 AM   #73
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Absolutely not. They said it in trailer: ďa football game for everyone.Ē

Not football fans. Everyone.

Iíve tested sliders and have bounced back and forth between All-Pro and All-Madden. All-Pro hardly offers a challenge to me, while All-Madden is rife with egregious rubber banding. So youíre telling me I canít throw to a RB five yards past the LOS without throwing three feet above his head? Lol, okay.

It feels like thereís no balance between gameplay styles or difficulties. I can break the Passing Yard record game in, game out on one difficulty but in another, every CB has superhuman abilities? Get outta here.

So no. Until they get rid of this awful physics engine and apathetic dev team, Madden will remain an unrealistic game for the casual NFL fan and sports gamer.


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Old 03-01-2018, 04:59 AM   #74
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

NO...because no one will know what a catch is
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:50 AM   #75
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCutlersCig
Absolutely not. They said it in trailer: ďa football game for everyone.Ē

Not football fans. Everyone.

Iíve tested sliders and have bounced back and forth between All-Pro and All-Madden. All-Pro hardly offers a challenge to me, while All-Madden is rife with egregious rubber banding. So youíre telling me I canít throw to a RB five yards past the LOS without throwing three feet above his head? Lol, okay.

It feels like thereís no balance between gameplay styles or difficulties. I can break the Passing Yard record game in, game out on one difficulty but in another, every CB has superhuman abilities? Get outta here.

So no. Until they get rid of this awful physics engine and apathetic dev team, Madden will remain an unrealistic game for the casual NFL fan and sports gamer.


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I don't consider the state of the game quite this bad... but I've been saying since at least M11/12 that the AI either needs to be tightened or further segmented or something to allow for a difficulty that falls somewhere between All-Pro and All-Madden. Seems like the majority of the traffic on the slider forums is going for precisely that goal.

While a lot of the issues are at the very core of the game design and are never truly going to be fixed until that core is rebuilt from the ground up... There are glimmers of hope... When the CPU has smart play calling, a lot of the other warts become easier to live with. I've played a handful of games in my current All-Pro based CFM where the CPU calls a great game, mixes up play calls, etc. Problem is that those are too few and far between.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:58 AM   #76
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aestis
Realize I'm effectively posting this in the lions den, but the dirty little truth is that the vast majority of the hardcore sim crowd doesn't want realism either. They think they do but they do not. More Realistic means more difficult by definition, and even the "sim crowd" just wants to roll up to the line and throw it way more aggressively than an NFL qb can but without the INT risk; or get 4 yds on their rushing play because they called a run without any concept of personnel or strategy, but they deserve 4 yds because that's realistic.

Look how many guys here think improvement in AI defenses is just the cpu cheating. Look at how many slider sets here run all pro because it's easy to score 28+ pts on way fewer snaps than the NFL.

The reason the devs can't go for too much realism isn't the kiddie crowd this forum likes to blame. It's because the audience they'd be developing it for would hate it.
You obviously don’t quite know what the sim crowd wants.

We want:


Less than three seconds on average to throw so as to match realistic NFL pass rush time (i.e. MORE DIFFICULTY)

Realistic edge pressure with defensive ends bending properly (more of an aesthetic thing).

Realisic push in a pocket, including cases where linemen are bulldozed backward but don’t completely lose their blocks (both aesthetic and higher higher difficulty related)

Defensive linemen to attempt to knife through double teams.

Defensive holding, and every other annoying penalty.

AI to shut down play calling tendencies (more difficulty plus realism)

No psychic defenders (yes, this would make it easier, BUT see below)

More realistic, aggressive zone coverage (in Madden AI players still just sit in a spot way too much instead of locking down on players that come into their zone-this would make it MORE difficult).

Better blocking AI (would make it easier to run in theory, BUT...)

Countered with more realistic block shedding and gap control.


More realistic QB limitations (no stupid 60 yard throws off the back foot across the field; somehow incorporate release speed and other traits that differentiate qbs)

Users throwing seven interceptions if they are too stupid to read a defense.

Runners getting 0.1 yards per carry if they are too stupid to follow their blocks or find creases on stretch plays.








I could go on. The point is the sim crowd wants a LOT more than statical matching of the NFL like you seem to suggest. They want it to LOOK and FEEL like the NFL too.

Having a defensive back jump ten yards into the air to intercept, or intercepting despite having their back turned, or linebackers running with 4.3 wrs, is UNREALISTIC. So yes, we don’t want to see that. So is ten seconds in the pocket. We don’t want to see THAT either, which makes the game harder. Nor do we want to see the ridiculous accuracy of Madden.


The sim crowd wants to PUNT.

The sim crowd wants to play on FIFTEEN MINUTE QUARTERS (but sadly this results in teams each having 80 to 100 snaps per game, which is not realistic; most of usnplay at around 12 minutes to compensate).

I’m sorry, but you don’t have the first clue about what the sim crowd wants.

Last edited by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞; 03-01-2018 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 03-01-2018, 09:13 AM   #77
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsimmonds
On the talk of whether sim guys truly want sim gameplay, the thing that always sticks out to me is interception totals from the how is your franchise going thread. So many players throw more than 16 interceptions in a season and yet still easily make it to the playoffs because of their sliders being set up in a way to allow this.

One thing I would object to, is that more realism by definition would be more difficult. I don't think that is true. Also not everyone runs all pro because they want to score 28 points with minimal effort. Don't discount the role stick skill has. Finally there is a difference in football knowledge vs Madden knowledge
Many of us point out that theyíd have fewer interceptions if they learned how to read a defense.

I do not consider those people complaining about interceptions as sim players. They are players on the cusp of joining the Dark Side, but they arenít there yet.


Now, PSYCHIC DEFENDERS are NOT realistic and are therefore not sim. But if you are throwing picks because you are depending on classic Madden techniques that require zero defense reading, and then you complain about ints, you aint sim.
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Old 03-01-2018, 09:59 AM   #78
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
Many of us point out that they’d have fewer interceptions if they learned how to read a defense.

I do not consider those people complaining about interceptions as sim players. They are players on the cusp of joining the Dark Side, but they aren’t there yet.


Now, PSYCHIC DEFENDERS are NOT realistic and are therefore not sim. But if you are throwing picks because you are depending on classic Madden techniques that require zero defense reading, and then you complain about ints, you aint sim.
Eh i don't think that's always true, this game is way worse with interceptions than past maddens. The cpu will turn around and catch the ball even when they should have no idea its coming. They seem to be just generally more aware of the ball, most of the time.

I recently played through all the ps3 madden games and the difference is night and day.

Last edited by Shogunreaper; 03-01-2018 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:33 PM   #79
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
You obviously donít quite know what the sim crowd wants.

We want:


Less than three seconds on average to throw so as to match realistic NFL pass rush time (i.e. MORE DIFFICULTY)

Realistic edge pressure with defensive ends bending properly (more of an aesthetic thing).

Realisic push in a pocket, including cases where linemen are bulldozed backward but donít completely lose their blocks (both aesthetic and higher higher difficulty related)

Defensive linemen to attempt to knife through double teams.

Defensive holding, and every other annoying penalty.

AI to shut down play calling tendencies (more difficulty plus realism)

No psychic defenders (yes, this would make it easier, BUT see below)

More realistic, aggressive zone coverage (in Madden AI players still just sit in a spot way too much instead of locking down on players that come into their zone-this would make it MORE difficult).

Better blocking AI (would make it easier to run in theory, BUT...)

Countered with more realistic block shedding and gap control.


More realistic QB limitations (no stupid 60 yard throws off the back foot across the field; somehow incorporate release speed and other traits that differentiate qbs)

Users throwing seven interceptions if they are too stupid to read a defense.

Runners getting 0.1 yards per carry if they are too stupid to follow their blocks or find creases on stretch plays.








I could go on. The point is the sim crowd wants a LOT more than statical matching of the NFL like you seem to suggest. They want it to LOOK and FEEL like the NFL too.

Having a defensive back jump ten yards into the air to intercept, or intercepting despite having their back turned, or linebackers running with 4.3 wrs, is UNREALISTIC. So yes, we donít want to see that. So is ten seconds in the pocket. We donít want to see THAT either, which makes the game harder. Nor do we want to see the ridiculous accuracy of Madden.


The sim crowd wants to PUNT.

The sim crowd wants to play on FIFTEEN MINUTE QUARTERS (but sadly this results in teams each having 80 to 100 snaps per game, which is not realistic; most of usnplay at around 12 minutes to compensate).

Iím sorry, but you donít have the first clue about what the sim crowd wants.

This an excellent post my man..
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:57 PM   #80
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
You obviously donít quite know what the sim crowd wants.

We want:


Less than three seconds on average to throw so as to match realistic NFL pass rush time (i.e. MORE DIFFICULTY)

Realistic edge pressure with defensive ends bending properly (more of an aesthetic thing).

Realisic push in a pocket, including cases where linemen are bulldozed backward but donít completely lose their blocks (both aesthetic and higher higher difficulty related)

Defensive linemen to attempt to knife through double teams.

Defensive holding, and every other annoying penalty.

AI to shut down play calling tendencies (more difficulty plus realism)

No psychic defenders (yes, this would make it easier, BUT see below)

More realistic, aggressive zone coverage (in Madden AI players still just sit in a spot way too much instead of locking down on players that come into their zone-this would make it MORE difficult).

Better blocking AI (would make it easier to run in theory, BUT...)

Countered with more realistic block shedding and gap control.


More realistic QB limitations (no stupid 60 yard throws off the back foot across the field; somehow incorporate release speed and other traits that differentiate qbs)

Users throwing seven interceptions if they are too stupid to read a defense.

Runners getting 0.1 yards per carry if they are too stupid to follow their blocks or find creases on stretch plays.








I could go on. The point is the sim crowd wants a LOT more than statical matching of the NFL like you seem to suggest. They want it to LOOK and FEEL like the NFL too.

Having a defensive back jump ten yards into the air to intercept, or intercepting despite having their back turned, or linebackers running with 4.3 wrs, is UNREALISTIC. So yes, we donít want to see that. So is ten seconds in the pocket. We donít want to see THAT either, which makes the game harder. Nor do we want to see the ridiculous accuracy of Madden.


The sim crowd wants to PUNT.

The sim crowd wants to play on FIFTEEN MINUTE QUARTERS (but sadly this results in teams each having 80 to 100 snaps per game, which is not realistic; most of usnplay at around 12 minutes to compensate).

Iím sorry, but you donít have the first clue about what the sim crowd wants.


I agree with your points of what many true sim gamers want, but I read Aestisís point differently. I think he was making the point that a lot of self-professed ďsimĒ gamers really arenít and if that was what he was driving at, I agree.

Lots of players play ďsim modeĒ but really arenít ďsimĒ in terms of how they play. The current sim mode, in my opinion, needs to be labeled as ďmadden classicĒ and a true sim style developed with many of the aspects you nicely laid out.


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