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Does madden want a realistic game?

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Old 02-24-2018, 08:42 AM   #49
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Realize I'm effectively posting this in the lions den, but the dirty little truth is that the vast majority of the hardcore sim crowd doesn't want realism either. They think they do but they do not. More Realistic means more difficult by definition, and even the "sim crowd" just wants to roll up to the line and throw it way more aggressively than an NFL qb can but without the INT risk; or get 4 yds on their rushing play because they called a run without any concept of personnel or strategy, but they deserve 4 yds because that's realistic.

Look how many guys here think improvement in AI defenses is just the cpu cheating. Look at how many slider sets here run all pro because it's easy to score 28+ pts on way fewer snaps than the NFL.

The reason the devs can't go for too much realism isn't the kiddie crowd this forum likes to blame. It's because the audience they'd be developing it for would hate it.
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Last edited by Aestis; 02-24-2018 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 02-24-2018, 09:59 AM   #50
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aestis
Realize I'm effectively posting this in the lions den, but the dirty little truth is that the vast majority of the hardcore sim crowd doesn't want realism either. They think they do but they do not. More Realistic means more difficult by definition, and even the "sim crowd" just wants to roll up to the line and throw it way more aggressively than an NFL qb can but without the INT risk; or get 4 yds on their rushing play because they called a run without any concept of personnel or strategy, but they deserve 4 yds because that's realistic.

Look how many guys here think improvement in AI defenses is just the cpu cheating. Look at how many slider sets here run all pro because it's easy to score 28+ pts on way fewer snaps than the NFL.

The reason the devs can't go for too much realism isn't the kiddie crowd this forum likes to blame. It's because the audience they'd be developing it for would hate it.

Whilst I think you make a valid point . If the game was truly as hard to play successfully as it would be to succeed in the real world NFL even people here wouldn't find it enjoyable... the vast majority of us don't have backgrounds as nfl coaches or players or possess the necessary skills and knowledge required

However that doesn't mean , as your tone seems to imply, that I ( We? ) wouldn't have our experienced enhanced were the game to be pushed harder in that direction

Personally I play on all-pro because that is the level the dev team insists best reflects the ratings system ( for both teams ) not because it would allow me to score more points. I try to get my settings to reflect true to life NFL numbers from snap counts to points scored , sack numbers , interceptions , yards per carrry etc across the league not just for my own team

I want star players both in my own roster and on opposing teams to stand out because that's what they should do , not because they are getting artificial ratings boosts to make the game more challenging

If they make the game more simulation and it becomes more difficult and too hard for me I'll change my settings not complain
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Old 02-24-2018, 10:12 AM   #51
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aestis
Realize I'm effectively posting this in the lions den, but the dirty little truth is that the vast majority of the hardcore sim crowd doesn't want realism either. They think they do but they do not. More Realistic means more difficult by definition, and even the "sim crowd" just wants to roll up to the line and throw it way more aggressively than an NFL qb can but without the INT risk; or get 4 yds on their rushing play because they called a run without any concept of personnel or strategy, but they deserve 4 yds because that's realistic.

Look how many guys here think improvement in AI defenses is just the cpu cheating. Look at how many slider sets here run all pro because it's easy to score 28+ pts on way fewer snaps than the NFL.

The reason the devs can't go for too much realism isn't the kiddie crowd this forum likes to blame. It's because the audience they'd be developing it for would hate it.


I like what youíre saying here. However, I do like to believe there are people like me who are checking fronts, box numbers, and leverage before picking a play. Checking out the red/white side of the defense. Are they in one front and slanting to another? So my whole frustration is I can watch a 5 hour clinic video. Go talk to the guy who created zone blocking and was an NFL coach for years. Implement it on Friday nights with a team. Then try and apply it to madden, and canít piss a drop because the other user has lined up in a nickel coverage against my 12 personnel package. I have a bunch of clips saved to my phone of stupid things happening like this despite having the realistic play call.


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Old 02-24-2018, 10:23 AM   #52
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aestis
Realize I'm effectively posting this in the lions den, but the dirty little truth is that the vast majority of the hardcore sim crowd doesn't want realism either. They think they do but they do not. More Realistic means more difficult by definition, and even the "sim crowd" just wants to roll up to the line and throw it way more aggressively than an NFL qb can but without the INT risk; or get 4 yds on their rushing play because they called a run without any concept of personnel or strategy, but they deserve 4 yds because that's realistic.

Look how many guys here think improvement in AI defenses is just the cpu cheating. Look at how many slider sets here run all pro because it's easy to score 28+ pts on way fewer snaps than the NFL.

The reason the devs can't go for too much realism isn't the kiddie crowd this forum likes to blame. It's because the audience they'd be developing it for would hate it.


But I also completely agree. I was talking to someone earlier who said he wanted more realism. If you made this game a real football simulator, most of the people on it would not be very good. Youíd see threads on here talking about how itís impossible to score because the vast majority of people playing madden have no idea what theyíre doing as far as footballs concerned.

Iíll say the thing that annoys me the most is user controlled players.

Let me elaborate. Letís say youíre lined up in a balanced 12 personnel set. The defense lined up in a over front. The strong side defensive end is lined up head up/to inside of the tight end. Meaning wide zone is the go to play. Leverage is there. I run the play strong side. My opponent is in cover three. His user (backside)backer takes no read step. Instead he sees the hand off direction and sprints across the field. Making the tackle before the play side linebacker can get there. Why? Because play side linebacker took read steps before making a play on the ball. Plus it allowed the AI to be on the same page.
So as a coach I see that play being made consistently despite him being out leveraged. So I decide a play action pass may be able to make this guy pay. No. The user recognizes its play action. (The camera does something different) changes user controlled player and his guy is back in a zone.

So I understand that people mostly complain on the offense being able to run money plays, and I agree. However, if you play a top tier madden player trying to read leverage and coverages it could potentially be a long game.


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Old 02-24-2018, 12:24 PM   #53
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aestis
Realize I'm effectively posting this in the lions den, but the dirty little truth is that the vast majority of the hardcore sim crowd doesn't want realism either. They think they do but they do not. More Realistic means more difficult by definition, and even the "sim crowd" just wants to roll up to the line and throw it way more aggressively than an NFL qb can but without the INT risk; or get 4 yds on their rushing play because they called a run without any concept of personnel or strategy, but they deserve 4 yds because that's realistic.

Look how many guys here think improvement in AI defenses is just the cpu cheating. Look at how many slider sets here run all pro because it's easy to score 28+ pts on way fewer snaps than the NFL.

The reason the devs can't go for too much realism isn't the kiddie crowd this forum likes to blame. It's because the audience they'd be developing it for would hate it.
That doesn't at all explain the vastly unrealistic franchise mode.
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Old 02-24-2018, 03:55 PM   #54
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

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Originally Posted by Alfie
Sure the game has "accuracy" trait but surely we all know it doesn't make much of a difference. That's why when you go online or look at competitive Madden games all you see are scramblers (Mariota, Vick etc.)
It doesn't help that short accuracy is applied to throws up to 20 yards downfield. You don't need a good deep ball QB to go deep!

Accuracy currently breaks down as follows:

Short 0-20 yards, Medium 20-40 yards, Deep 40+ yards

It should really be more like short is 0-10 yards, medium 10-20, deep 20+.
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Old 02-24-2018, 04:05 PM   #55
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

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Originally Posted by stinkubus
It doesn't help that short accuracy is applied to throws up to 20 yards downfield. You don't need a good deep ball QB to go deep!

Accuracy currently breaks down as follows:

Short 0-20 yards, Medium 20-40 yards, Deep 40+ yards

It should really be more like short is 0-10 yards, medium 10-20, deep 20+.
I believe most data refers to distances beyond the LOS whereas Madden refers to distances on a point of throw to point of catch basis...

I'd a throw from the goal line to the 25 is a 25 yard throw..in Madden...but data sources would consider it only 15 yards if the LOS was the 10 yard line
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Old 02-24-2018, 05:48 PM   #56
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

On the talk of whether sim guys truly want sim gameplay, the thing that always sticks out to me is interception totals from the how is your franchise going thread. So many players throw more than 16 interceptions in a season and yet still easily make it to the playoffs because of their sliders being set up in a way to allow this.

One thing I would object to, is that more realism by definition would be more difficult. I don't think that is true. Also not everyone runs all pro because they want to score 28 points with minimal effort. Don't discount the role stick skill has. Finally there is a difference in football knowledge vs Madden knowledge
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