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Does madden want a realistic game?

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Old 02-25-2018, 11:52 AM   #65
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsimmonds
Wanna clarify something, off tackle is not a outside zone run. Off tackle is a staple of the power run game.



The off tackle/Dive combo is too effective because computer controlled defenders don't aggressively fill their gaps. Coaching guys can help me out on this one, what is the phrase, get your hat in the hole? What happens is the defender that has C gap responsibility doesn't beat the lead blocker to the hole because he is too passive and slow to react, even if it is called 5 straight times. So you have to user the defender to do it. Once the guy sees that is who you are usering, he audibles to HB dive (another power run concept) only now it is the B gap that is wide open.



There are also schematic reasons its effective. Getting killed by the dive? Call a bear front. Wanna guess what a bear front is weak against? So it should be a useful combo, but its too good in Madden because of unrealistic play on defense.


My apologies. Iíve never coached on a team who runs off tackle. I made an assumption it was like our wide zone scheme because the running back is to read the tight end/tackles block.

Exactly should be a good combo. However if you do the same thing from another formation you can get shut down.


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Old 02-25-2018, 12:07 PM   #66
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

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Originally Posted by blockdownkickout
My apologies. Iíve never coached on a team who runs off tackle. I made an assumption it was like our wide zone scheme because the running back is to read the tight end/tackles block.

Exactly should be a good combo. However if you do the same thing from another formation you can get shut down.


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I don't think you see off tackle in the NFL as often as in the past (not sure about other levels). Linebackers nowadays are just too athletic. Instead we see the typical power run with a pulling guard because it is a bit quicker to develop, but even then some linebackers are just too damn good (e.g. google Ray Lewis Chargers. That wouldn't happen vs a zone run)
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Old 02-25-2018, 12:20 PM   #67
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Does madden want a realistic game?

https://youtu.be/qW1xbhW2PEE
Go to the 5:19 mark.

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Old 02-25-2018, 12:29 PM   #68
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

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Originally Posted by blockdownkickout
https://youtu.be/qW1xbhW2PEE
Go to the 5:19 mark.

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Yeah that is outside zone, not off tackle.
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:19 PM   #69
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

The reality is that despite there being 3 different styles, core gameplay features are going to be universal. Some keys will be:

-making all players adhere to the law of inertia all the time(especially the user controlled player)-

-exponentially expanding the number of animations that can trigger when two or more players interact. Currently so many plays are made or not made because so many contextually inappropriate animations get chosen in a situation because the choices available are too limited. Sports games always need more animations not less.

-Continue to improve the AI across the board, especially as relates to zone awareness, and players being able to adequately carry out the various coaching adjustments/assignments given to them.

With difficulty levels and sliders, a solid, challenging sim game can be created for solo players if core movement and AI is good.

Yes, this is a biased opinion, but IMO H2H play online, unless in a sim league with agreed upon sliders, is a lost cause because the vary nature of the experience is almost totally about User agency which much of time runs contrary to real football. If too much of gameplay design is a concession to how competitive players want to play then that will make it harder to tune a realistic experience for simheads.
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:46 PM   #70
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfsolo
The reality is that despite there being 3 different styles, core gameplay features are going to be universal. Some keys will be:

-making all players adhere to the law of inertia all the time(especially the user controlled player)-

-exponentially expanding the number of animations that can trigger when two or more players interact. Currently so many plays are made or not made because so many contextually inappropriate animations get chosen in a situation because the choices available are too limited. Sports games always need more animations not less.
I would agree on a larger variety of animations, assuming the animations themselves were greatly simplified. One side of the problem is not having a proper animation to be triggered, but I think the bigger problem is that many of the animations are too drawn out to begin with. I'm sure we've all been in perfect position to make a play, but once the animation slide show begins, it's impossible to compensate... and players start to feel they've been 'jobbed'. That is just about the worse thing that a video game can do... regardless if the end result looks just like the real thing when watching it in slo-mo after the fact from limitless replay angles.

Now 2k5 was generally hot garbage in the AI department, the overall mythic status of that title is overblown... But it just passes the eye test at game speed in most player model v player model interactions because it is a less canned approach. If you were in a position to make a play on a pass or a tackle you were never animated out of the way because the dice roll behind the curtain decided that 45 frames of "lunging reception" trumped your stick skills. That didn't mean you would always make the play you were in position for... but at least you didn't feel robbed by the gif loops.

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Old 02-25-2018, 07:03 PM   #71
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

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Originally Posted by Nunyerbiz
I would agree on a larger variety of animations, assuming the animations themselves were greatly simplified. One side of the problem is not having a proper animation to be triggered, but I think the bigger problem is that many of the animations are too drawn out to begin with. I'm sure we've all been in perfect position to make a play, but once the animation slide show begins, it's impossible to compensate... and players start to feel they've been 'jobbed'. That is just about the worse thing that a video game can do... regardless if the end result looks just like the real thing when watching it in slo-mo after the fact from limitless replay angles.

Now 2k5 was generally hot garbage in the AI department, the overall mythic status of that title is overblown... But it just passes the eye test at game speed in most player model v player model interactions because it is a less canned approach. If you were in a position to make a play on a pass or a tackle you were never animated out of the way because the dice roll behind the curtain decided that 45 frames of "lunging reception" trumped your stick skills. That didn't mean you would always make the play you were in position for... but at least you didn't feel robbed by the gif loops.
Recently i've been feeling like that everytime i see a defender smack the ball out of my hands.

You can go into replay and see that the game decided to do it before i even made the catch because the animation is so long.

Last edited by Shogunreaper; 02-25-2018 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 02-27-2018, 06:22 AM   #72
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Re: Does madden want a realistic game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blockdownkickout
https://youtu.be/qW1xbhW2PEE
Go to the 5:19 mark.

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An off tackle play has man blocking and looks different. That is zone blocking, where the whole line moves together and blocks the guy in front of them. Look at the difference in blocking assignments:



Outside zones, inside zones, and any zone run or zone stretch run relies on zone blocking, not man blocking.
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