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QB Accuracy Chart from PFF - CFM Idea

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Old 03-30-2018, 05:15 PM   #17
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Re: QB Accuracy Chart from PFF - CFM Idea

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Most of my issue is with the PFF final grades. They have a smell of unverifiable arbitrariness about them foremost, but more importantly they work backwards from the final result of the play to assign a grade to a player independent of play calling and assignments, both of which obviously can dramatically impact how a player may approach a given play. The advanced stats are better, but can be similarly misleading for different reasons.

With respect to making Madden player ratings better I have always been and continue to be a strong proponent of actual pro football scouting data driving the ratings, a la how FBGratings operated (I was and still am an FBGratings guy, even though I haven't spoken to Dan in a couple years now, I hope he is well). It is my wish that at some point Tiburon will license data from a reputable scouting firm such as National or BLESTO to generate ratings for the entire NFL player population, then rebalance the tuning values of the core game engine to accommodate for the wildly different player ratings file which will fall out from that data. In my mind that would be a far more authentic approach to creating a given game's roster file than a game designer thrown educated darts at a wall, those educated darts having been informed by bad data.

OT EDIT: as to PFF's quarterback rankings, some of the guys in the Top 10 are incredibly overvalued based on their individual performances in 2017 thanks to their teams enjoying success overshadowing that. The most obvious example of a player being overrated in this list based on results as opposed to individual talent is Case Keenum. Keenum was absolutely not a Top 10 NFL quarterback in the NFL by individual talent level in 2017. He's smart, mobile, and fearless, but his limitations were plainly obvious any time he demonstrated his mediocre arm strength throwing fluttering mildly accurate 50-50 jump balls to the best starting WR combination in the league last season. The talent around him enabled his success, not the other way around.

Still speaking to PFF's final ranking list - Alex Smith is similarly overrated, and Ben Roethlisberger individually was a shell of his former self last year as well. Meanwhile, Cam Newton is criminally underrated.
Agree on Keenum.

Strongy disagree on Big Ben based on some of the absurd throws he made in the Jacksonville playoff loss. Smith I believe is UNDERRATED. He made some real progress this year. Newton I have never been too impressed with, although he is good.

But Garoppolo took a 1-10 team to 6-10 throwing to the likes of Kendrick Bourne. If anyone is underrated, it’s him.




But FBG was amazing, at least the one Madden I tried it.
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Old 03-31-2018, 01:02 AM   #18
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Re: QB Accuracy Chart from PFF - CFM Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Most of my issue is with the PFF final grades. They have a smell of unverifiable arbitrariness about them foremost, but more importantly they work backwards from the final result of the play to assign a grade to a player independent of play calling and assignments, both of which obviously can dramatically impact how a player may approach a given play. The advanced stats are better, but can be similarly misleading for different reasons.

With respect to making Madden player ratings better I have always been and continue to be a strong proponent of actual pro football scouting data driving the ratings, a la how FBGratings operated (I was and still am an FBGratings guy, even though I haven't spoken to Dan in a couple years now, I hope he is well). It is my wish that at some point Tiburon will license data from a reputable scouting firm such as National or BLESTO to generate ratings for the entire NFL player population, then rebalance the tuning values of the core game engine to accommodate for the wildly different player ratings file which will fall out from that data. In my mind that would be a far more authentic approach to creating a given game's roster file than a game designer thrown educated darts at a wall, those educated darts having been informed by bad data.

OT EDIT: as to PFF's quarterback rankings, some of the guys in the Top 10 are incredibly overvalued based on their individual performances in 2017 thanks to their teams enjoying success overshadowing that. The most obvious example of a player being overrated in this list based on results as opposed to individual talent is Case Keenum. Keenum was absolutely not a Top 10 NFL quarterback in the NFL by individual talent level in 2017. He's smart, mobile, and fearless, but his limitations were plainly obvious any time he demonstrated his mediocre arm strength throwing fluttering mildly accurate 50-50 jump balls to the best starting WR combination in the league last season. The talent around him enabled his success, not the other way around.

Still speaking to PFF's final ranking list - Alex Smith is similarly overrated, and Ben Roethlisberger individually was a shell of his former self last year as well. Meanwhile, Cam Newton is criminally underrated.
This is basically digging up and reliving old discussions, but its been so long I figure why not.

Madden (any game really) is not advanced enough to use scouting data imo.

Besides that, PFF is great at what they say they do. They don't try to project a player's skill level or evaluate their talents. It is purely results based. PFF is not trying to say Keenum is a top 10 QB in the NFL by talent. They are saying that based on their methodology his performance was top 10.

You are right that they don't take certain things like assignments into account, and they are right to do so.

Going back to Madden, I think working backwards is the right move for Madden due to what the game is trying to accomplish, and that is recreating what we see in the NFL. Not what we could see, or what scouts expect, but the actual results. I want NFL players performing in the game as they do in real life.

This doesn't mean that I want player ratings to be determined solely by PFF ratings of course, but I do think Madden has a place for them. I for one would love PFF integration into CFM. It shouldn't drive progression or anything like that, but it would be cool for the game to track some pff style stats.
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Old 03-31-2018, 04:41 AM   #19
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Re: QB Accuracy Chart from PFF - CFM Idea

im a 49ers fan but Jimmy G isnt the messiah, he has potential to be very good. Give him an oline and a run game (which uses the best of the rbs) and more than 2 receivers that time will be short. The rating i want it the one that cant be measured, "nouse" as we say over here. spatial awareness mixed with football intelligence, what is best overall when it all goes to poo on a play
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Old 03-31-2018, 11:36 AM   #20
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Re: QB Accuracy Chart from PFF - CFM Idea

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
I don't want Pro Football Focus anywhere near player ratings, to be honest. I personally don't find their grading to be very credible.

I do think having more ratings to differentiate the nuances of quarterback play would be a good add, however.
Agree, PFF has a lot of stupid stats and their grading system on many of them is bad imo.
Also QBs in Madden have settings for how they act under pressure in their profile that you can edit so it is already there.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:29 AM   #21
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Re: QB Accuracy Chart from PFF - CFM Idea

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Originally Posted by Ueauvan
im a 49ers fan but Jimmy G isnt the messiah, he has potential to be very good. Give him an oline and a run game (which uses the best of the rbs) and more than 2 receivers that time will be short. The rating i want it the one that cant be measured, "nouse" as we say over here. spatial awareness mixed with football intelligence, what is best overall when it all goes to poo on a play
Don’t make me go repost the incredible underpressure throws Jimmy G made last year again...or I could just find more since he did it so often with Zane Beadles playing RT... At minimum he will be top ten. Book it.
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:51 PM   #22
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Re: QB Accuracy Chart from PFF - CFM Idea

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Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
Donít make me go repost the incredible underpressure throws Jimmy G made last year again...or I could just find more since he did it so often with Zane Beadles playing RT... At minimum he will be top ten. Book it.
Pleeeeeeeease no more Jimmy G clips. Dude hasn't won anything yet. You're welcome to post all of the Wentz and Foles clips you'd like to though
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:40 PM   #23
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Re: QB Accuracy Chart from PFF - CFM Idea

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Originally Posted by PhillyPhanatic14
Pleeeeeeeease no more Jimmy G clips. Dude hasn't won anything yet. You're welcome to post all of the Wentz and Foles clips you'd like to though
Lol. However Wentz and Foles didn’t have Zane Beadles, the worst GUARD in football, playing right tackle, and they weren’t throwing to the likes of Louis Murphy, Kendrick Bourne, Trent Taylor and Marquise Goodwin (who magically went from Bust to legitimate threat as soon as Jimmy G took over), and didn’t turn the 29th most efficiently scoring offense into the 1st most efficient scoring offense.

Hehehe.


Of course in all seriousness Wentz is the 2017 MVP if not for the injury.
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