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Rex Dickson Leaves EA Tiburon and the Madden Team

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Old 05-19-2018, 12:05 AM   #217
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Re: Rex Dickson Leaves EA Tiburon and the Madden Team

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
I basically agree with you that online competitive play - in MUT and Franchise both - is going to be the promotional focus of Madden going forward. Really, that direction has been clear since M16.

With all that said, I think we can all agree that the user vs CPU experience doesn't remotely prepare a new or even a veteran player for online competitive play. On the field, the CPU doesn't even attempt 75% of the pre-snap adjustments the top competitive Madden players are routinely using every play, and that's a problem. Tiburon necessarily must continue to invest in the single-player experience in order to groom the stick skills and strategic thinking abilities of the game's player base and thus increase Madden's competitive player population, else it will not be a successful competitive game.
Could not agree w/ this more.

"Stick skills" don't really matter right now. The game is largely dependent on animations and dice rolls, as it has been for god knows how many years... and that's largely due to the fact they've neglected the AI for so long, that animations and dice rolls are really the only fall-back they have to mask the poor AI logic/strategy.

Case in point, I'll use another EA game as an example, Need For Speed...

I believe the last NFS game I played was 4-6 years ago, can't recall the exact iteration... but I was currently in a "trophy hunting" phase on the PS4, and while I usually only kept to the story-mode aspect of the game, there were multi-player trophies I needed for 100%. So after I spent the vast majority of my time in single-player, I eventually had to go MP for said trophies...

In NFS, though, the AI was extremely challenging. Not because they could beat you time and time again w/ inferior cars, but because the AI knew the proper strategies to take during the race; drafting, when to brake and when to go balls out, proper angles going into and out of curves, etc. The AI actually had me wanting to throw my controller at my TV... NOT because I felt as though I was being cheated, but because I truly felt the AI was simply BETTER than I was. I spent so many hours retrying matches I lost at the very last second, I'd lost count.

But after finally getting all the single-player trophies, it wasn't until I went online to get the multi-player trophies when I realized just how well playing against the AI prepared me...

No exaggeration... I literally won every race I participated in. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bragging, by any means. But I just remember how floored I was at how badly the other racers were in MP compared to the AI in SP. I honestly went into the MP experience thinking I was going to get my *** handed to me, and came out of it untouchable. All because spending so much time racing against the challenging AI in SP prepared me enough for it.

Of course, programming the AI in a racing game will (I assume) always be 10x easier than programming the AI in a football game, where you have 22 individual players performing a certain task at the same time on every given play... but, IMHO, if they upped their AI in Madden to actually challenge people using true-to-life strategies (or at the very least, challenge them in pre-snap user adjustments) it would absolutely go a LONG way in improving the MP experience instead of people just using the latest exploits in animations and/or 100 rated speedsters to win every game.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:41 AM   #218
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Re: Rex Dickson Leaves EA Tiburon and the Madden Team

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Not sure who follows the Battlefield series, but Battlefield 2018 (5) is coming out in about October. But, they left clues about the first release of details about the next game in BF1. There is to be a trailer on May 23rd according to the clue found.

I bring this up, because maybe that time or close to it, will be when M19 info will be released...
Im predicting we get some Madden 19 info next week.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:06 AM   #219
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Re: Rex Dickson Leaves EA Tiburon and the Madden Team

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigd51
Could not agree w/ this more.

"Stick skills" don't really matter right now. The game is largely dependent on animations and dice rolls, as it has been for god knows how many years... and that's largely due to the fact they've neglected the AI for so long, that animations and dice rolls are really the only fall-back they have to mask the poor AI logic/strategy.

Case in point, I'll use another EA game as an example, Need For Speed...

I believe the last NFS game I played was 4-6 years ago, can't recall the exact iteration... but I was currently in a "trophy hunting" phase on the PS4, and while I usually only kept to the story-mode aspect of the game, there were multi-player trophies I needed for 100%. So after I spent the vast majority of my time in single-player, I eventually had to go MP for said trophies...

In NFS, though, the AI was extremely challenging. Not because they could beat you time and time again w/ inferior cars, but because the AI knew the proper strategies to take during the race; drafting, when to brake and when to go balls out, proper angles going into and out of curves, etc. The AI actually had me wanting to throw my controller at my TV... NOT because I felt as though I was being cheated, but because I truly felt the AI was simply BETTER than I was. I spent so many hours retrying matches I lost at the very last second, I'd lost count.

But after finally getting all the single-player trophies, it wasn't until I went online to get the multi-player trophies when I realized just how well playing against the AI prepared me...

No exaggeration... I literally won every race I participated in. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bragging, by any means. But I just remember how floored I was at how badly the other racers were in MP compared to the AI in SP. I honestly went into the MP experience thinking I was going to get my *** handed to me, and came out of it untouchable. All because spending so much time racing against the challenging AI in SP prepared me enough for it.

Of course, programming the AI in a racing game will (I assume) always be 10x easier than programming the AI in a football game, where you have 22 individual players performing a certain task at the same time on every given play... but, IMHO, if they upped their AI in Madden to actually challenge people using true-to-life strategies (or at the very least, challenge them in pre-snap user adjustments) it would absolutely go a LONG way in improving the MP experience instead of people just using the latest exploits in animations and/or 100 rated speedsters to win every game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
I basically agree with you that online competitive play - in MUT and Franchise both - is going to be the promotional focus of Madden going forward. Really, that direction has been clear since M16.

With all that said, I think we can all agree that the user vs CPU experience doesn't remotely prepare a new or even a veteran player for online competitive play. On the field, the CPU doesn't even attempt 75% of the pre-snap adjustments the top competitive Madden players are routinely using every play, and that's a problem. Tiburon necessarily must continue to invest in the single-player experience in order to groom the stick skills and strategic thinking abilities of the game's player base and thus increase Madden's competitive player population, else it will not be a successful competitive game.


On All-Madden, the CPU makes tons of pre-snap adjustments, it constantly hits drag routes (like online gamers do), if it sees you in man press it often takes a deep shot that's successful, the WR getting behind your CB, and on D, the CPU constantly spams the cover 0 blitzes (like online gamers do).
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Old 05-19-2018, 04:39 PM   #220
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Re: Rex Dickson Leaves EA Tiburon and the Madden Team

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MB thought you meant Moonlight was gonna change things.

I've realized for Franchise mode to be good again, it's going to come through microtransactions. Mainly presentation that will keep you immerse in the game like weekly recap show, different presentations for big games, different atmosphere for big games and playoffs, storylines, all that other stuff were going to have to pay extra for.

It's sad to say but it's only route for EA to care about Franchise mode, similar how UT makes bank for EA and that's main focus now. Only way they'll care about franchise mode is to see if people like us will pay extra for features that should of been in game years ago and sadly we might have to.

That's what I predict for next generation. Hey guys, we actually put effort into Franchise mode this year but guess what, you'll have to pay $10 if you want SportsCenter, $10 for mock drafts, $10 for live draft presentation and ooooooo guess what for ultimate price of just $20 if you pre order you'll get MNF, SNF, TNF presentations!
I've thought this for years. Personally, I'm shocked EA hasn't already done it, I think they've left a lot of money on the table.

People want to get immersed in franchise mode, and just like people pay for all kind of additional goodies in an already expansive game like GTA, I can totally see a scenario where they give you a decent enough franchise out the box, but for an additional $15, you can have great draft presentation, NFL combine, and an interactive, robust free agency. Another $15 gets you ability to customize and create uniforms to your hearts content. Another $15 gets you highly detailed franchise specific commentary in game and a weekly NFL show with highlights, etc.

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Old 05-19-2018, 05:11 PM   #221
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Re: Rex Dickson Leaves EA Tiburon and the Madden Team

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Originally Posted by bigd51
"Stick skills" don't really matter right now.
That uproar the rest of us just heard was literally the entire Madden competitive community disagreeing with you.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:47 PM   #222
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Re: Rex Dickson Leaves EA Tiburon and the Madden Team

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
That uproar the rest of us just heard was literally the entire Madden competitive community disagreeing with you.
I can attest from personal experience that as of at least Madden 17, stick skills matter. Haven't really played in an online league in Madden 18. But prior to that, it mattered, and I don't see why it wouldn't in Madden 18.


EDIT- on offense I'd say it matters less than the ability to read a defense and quickly react to it, but on runs, kickoff and punt returns, it's pretty huge. On defense too (although in my experience the ability to disguise what you are doing, and mix up play calling just right, is more important).
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:20 PM   #223
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Re: Rex Dickson Leaves EA Tiburon and the Madden Team

IMHO They should make Madden 19 from scratch, new code, new everything, they have to plan what they want to have in the game. and make in the current frostbite engine. It should fix most of their legacy issues and other annoyances they had in the past. StarCraft Remastered fixed the previous issues they had by being made from scratch code.

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Old 05-19-2018, 09:45 PM   #224
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Re: Rex Dickson Leaves EA Tiburon and the Madden Team

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Originally Posted by PanthersFan89
IMHO They should make Madden 19 from scratch, new code, new everything, they have to plan what they want to have in the game. and make in the current frostbite engine. It should fix most of their legacy issues and other annoyances they had in the past. StarCraft Remastered fixed the previous issues they had by being made from scratch code.

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I think the issue with this is that it would take longer than a year to take away all that legacy coding.

I've heard from a reliable source(Steven A lol) that there are millions upon millions of legacy code in Madden.

It would have to be a side project that would take years, but agree that legacy coding in the game should be removed.
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