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If You Were in Charge of Madden: What Is Your Five-Year Plan (Roundtable)

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Old 05-11-2018, 03:53 PM   #17
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Re: If You Were in Charge of Madden: What Is Your Five-Year Plan (Roundtable)

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
I disagree that "sim" gets destroyed by making the CPU aware of all the tools available to it. We've all been complaining that the CPU needs help for years, I want to provide it that help.

My go-to example on this is the story of how the Ravens user in my M18 online league led the league in rushing with Joe Flacco. This happened because said user scrambles any time the opportunity presents itself on a passing down, and the CPU doesn't know how or when to use a QB Spy or DL Contain rush unless that assignment is specifically baked into the play call.
We saw this issue in the QB scramble thread. You offered three strategies that help stop scrambling QBs. Strategies carry with them risk/reward. They may leave leave other areas open and allow other plays to work much better. But this is how competitions works.

What was the solution by the sim guys in the thread? Go into attributes and change the scrambling QB into a player that won't scramble so much. It's what I';ve called paint-by-numbers boring. There is no learning, no improving skills. They just dial in the results they want and make them happen. There is no risk/reward.

I'm with you. I'd rather a game adapt to condition on the field and opponent tendencies to utilize the same tools the User does. That leaves open the risk/reward opportunities to counter what your opponent is doing. If the game were to start doing that, it would render the "adjust attributes" solution even more meaningless.

Expanding on that, maybe difficulty levels take advanced strategies as way to scale difficulty. On easy, it doesn't adapt. On the Hardest, it adapts to everything. The only problem I see with this is the usual sports gamers battlecry of "Comeback code!"

In NHL, many players solved the "comeback code" by nerfing the AI's ability to change strategies, so it can't get more aggressive late in the game when it is losing, you know, instead of adjusting defensive strategies to protect a lead.

So, I'm not convinced that sim players will ever embrace an AI that actually uses the in-game tools to combat your tendencies. And if that is the case, you can't put sim gamers into easy difficulty, as they won't use it. But I think it would be better than changing the speed and abilities at different levels.
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Old 05-11-2018, 03:59 PM   #18
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If You Were in Charge of Madden: What Is Your Five-Year Plan (Roundtable)

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Originally Posted by drugsbunny

?*Downloadable additions to the game that allow for new modes. Call it "The Life". Career mode that takes your player from High School senior and live the life. Option to go to a *big school and be noticed by the world. You will be tempted by boosters, girls and grade tampering. Get caught and it will affect your draft stock. Open world career mode. Give us a chance to drive around a fictional city and spend our money on goods and services and fun. Do something foolish and pay off the law or miss a few games if the commish says so. Take some drugs and have a fun urine test mini game in order to rig the test.***
Lol. A mini game fake urine drug test? Lol. I love it! Like, u gotta sneak in fake urine without the lab inspectors finding it. Make sure u heat it up to the correct temp before going. Lol.

How great would madden or any nfl game be if they did add that type of ‘realism’? Lol. Like, what if Rockstar made an nfl game? You’d have all that stuff in there. Girls, drugs, locker room shenanigans. This will never happen as the nfl won’t even allow concussions in the game. But, it is interesting to think about. I mean, if u had to truly manage a roster of individual men with individual personality traits and balance their ability to like each other and play hard on the field while sneaking fake urine into a drug test, I mean, wow.

Someone might ask, ‘how’s that new madden?’ And, one might respond, ‘oh, man. It’s great. My stud CB passed his drug test after partying all week with strippers and smoking weed. So, we won the super bowl.’ Lol

‘But, hows the gameplay?’
‘What?’

Forget about X’s and O’s, the new madden is all about Exes and Ho’s. Lol

Ok, I’ll stop, now. I just couldn’t help it. That drug test mini game cracked me up.






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Old 05-11-2018, 04:13 PM   #19
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Re: If You Were in Charge of Madden: What Is Your Five-Year Plan (Roundtable)

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Originally Posted by JayhawkerStL
We saw this issue in the QB scramble thread. You offered three strategies that help stop scrambling QBs. Strategies carry with them risk/reward. They may leave leave other areas open and allow other plays to work much better. But this is how competitions works.

What was the solution by the sim guys in the thread? Go into attributes and change the scrambling QB into a player that won't scramble so much. It's what I';ve called paint-by-numbers boring. There is no learning, no improving skills. They just dial in the results they want and make them happen. There is no risk/reward.

I'm with you. I'd rather a game adapt to condition on the field and opponent tendencies to utilize the same tools the User does. That leaves open the risk/reward opportunities to counter what your opponent is doing. If the game were to start doing that, it would render the "adjust attributes" solution even more meaningless.
As one of the trait-editing advocates, I'll simply say that adjusting from Mobile to Balanced simply fixes whatever EA broke in the patch that caused QBs to scramble at twice the old rate. Balanced simply plays as Mobile used to, so Balanced trait guys will run on you and force you to do all the "learning/adjusting/trying hard" that you valorize above. I just played Rogers, who is Balanced, and he took off on me 9x. I had to spy him almost every play at the end of the game.

So I think your characterization of the fix is a bit reductive and not entirely charitable. Granted, editing traits is not for everyone, as it's a little extra work, but it's not like it makes for lazy gaming, either. Just sayin'.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:31 PM   #20
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Re: If You Were in Charge of Madden: What Is Your Five-Year Plan (Roundtable)

One of the bigger selling features this past year was customization and yet, people that customize the game to fit their personal needs, are slapped with a paint by numbers accusations.lol

I really don't care how anyone uses their game and would hope no one cares how I get the most of the a user vs cpu experience.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:56 PM   #21
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Re: If You Were in Charge of Madden: What Is Your Five-Year Plan (Roundtable)

Five year plan huh? Well how about aliens crashing during a game but you fight them off but they leave their weapons behind causing a team death match but also include a battle royal mode that will make fornite jealous. No? Ok how about going back and looking at all the things that 2k did and update it to 4k. Improving the gameplay and expanding the franchise to include mini camp with free agent and street tryouts, work on making penalties more realistic and do a much better job with presentation, such as the sidelines. I am tired of everyone looking alike on the sidelines ( although that is improving) . Would like to see a " Home field " advantage figured in. This seems to be missing in today s game. Think college hoops 2k8 they did a great job with that. Also when it's rainy or snowing completion percentages should go down. Make it easier to sub in backups. Think Fifa 18 quick sub suggestions. Sideline reporter for injury updates. I could go on and on, a lot you could do in five years!
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Old 05-11-2018, 05:16 PM   #22
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Re: If You Were in Charge of Madden: What Is Your Five-Year Plan (Roundtable)

I would re-do Franchise mode. EAs is so shallow compared to NBA 2K's MYLeague.

I want everything to be customizable. Be able to swap teams in, add teams, re-align divisions, create your own teams, draft classes, etc...
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Old 05-11-2018, 07:05 PM   #23
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Re: If You Were in Charge of Madden: What Is Your Five-Year Plan (Roundtable)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Man
As one of the trait-editing advocates, I'll simply say that adjusting from Mobile to Balanced simply fixes whatever EA broke in the patch that caused QBs to scramble at twice the old rate. Balanced simply plays as Mobile used to, so Balanced trait guys will run on you and force you to do all the "learning/adjusting/trying hard" that you valorize above. I just played Rogers, who is Balanced, and he took off on me 9x. I had to spy him almost every play at the end of the game.

So I think your characterization of the fix is a bit reductive and not entirely charitable. Granted, editing traits is not for everyone, as it's a little extra work, but it's not like it makes for lazy gaming, either. Just sayin'.
If you run QB contain and use a spy, the QB will run less. What changing the traits do is allow you to defend him in the same way you would any other QB. The threat of a run forces teams to avoid man to man and give up a defender to just spy.

So yeah, you can "fix" this by changing attributes, but it's really just dumbing down the game. I prefer to have to actually change my defensive style based on the talent and tendencies of my opponent.
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Old 05-11-2018, 07:16 PM   #24
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Re: If You Were in Charge of Madden: What Is Your Five-Year Plan (Roundtable)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadman
One of the bigger selling features this past year was customization and yet, people that customize the game to fit their personal needs, are slapped with a paint by numbers accusations.lol

I really don't care how anyone uses their game and would hope no one cares how I get the most of the a user vs cpu experience.
Well, my discussion piggybacks on what CM was suggesting, which is the CPU using more of the tools against users, which helps force the user to play smarter. But that got push back because that would be "an unrealistic cheesefest," as though NFL teams don't watch film and change their tendencies from week to week to account for what their opponent does.

That's the chess match. If I have a mobile QB,m then I know I will see more zone, one LB or S will be out of the play, and DL will be more focused on contain instead of pass rush. So that gives me options. That means sometimes, I am going to go against grain, because my opponent is assuming one thing, so I will do another.

But, apparently, that is not sim.
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