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Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

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Old 06-19-2018, 09:43 PM   #153
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

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Originally Posted by tyberious4now
This right here speaks volumes Sage...We are a divided community on OS some of us old school cats have been hearing the same rhetoric from EA for 20 years or longer...

It's really time to just keep it real and acknowledged if EA could they would but they can't and they aint...That's the bottom line point blank period...

It's just time to move on from EA football!
I think the real issue is that when many of us started playing video game football there were many options, nfl2k, madden, ncaa, nfl blitz, nfl street, nfl gameday, that one by microsoft that i never played, nfl qb club. Point is each of those games had things that people liked and it fit what they were looking for in a game.

There will never be a time that madden will fit all of those criteria for us.
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Old 06-19-2018, 09:52 PM   #154
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyberious4now
This right here speaks volumes Sage...We are a divided community on OS some of us old school cats have been hearing the same rhetoric from EA for 20 years or longer...

It's really time to just keep it real and acknowledged if EA could they would but they can't and they aint...That's the bottom line point blank period...

It's just time to move on from EA football!

Hopefully when you move on you are stronger than I am. I haven't played a Madden since 16. I play 2k5, 2k8, and NCAA 14 when I want my fix in. Now that they are moving to PC I am really leaning towards buying the game again. I still see there are a lot of issues that make EA who they are. It's clear that simulation football isn't what they truly want no matter what they say or what crumbs they give us here at OS.


I wish I could just go on forever not buying another Madden until they changed their ways, but I love football too much and to be honest, 2k5 is finally starting to show too much of its age for me. It only took til 2018, but I am just now getting to the point where I am honestly wanting to play Madden over it, but mostly because of 2k5's age and Madden being new and modern.


2k5 had its share of issues, there were big time issues with the secondary becoming clueless once a ball was in the air, but I was always able to put up with it. Not anymore. I don't know why, but I have hit a wall with it and I want a new football game. Unfortunately for me my only choice is Madden to fit my NFL wants.


What I am going to do this year, which is what I've been doing with my backlog of games I've been tearing through, is focusing on what the game does well and tuning it as much as the options let me to get it to play how I envision it. It is what I did with 2k5. Maybe I have been too harsh on Madden because I was such a 2k5 fan, or maybe I was right in my criticism. It does seem there is a lot of negativity among the Madden consumer base, but then again all video game forums these days are filled with negativity and toxic posts. The appreciated things tend to stick in one or two thread like The Little Things threads or the Impressions threads while all the issues get their own threads and sometimes multiple threads.


I'll try out Madden 19 on the PC. Hopefully I am able to enjoy what is good about it and have enough fun to get my fix in without shelving it out of frustration. It'll be the first time in a decade plus that I have been able to do that with the series.
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Old 06-19-2018, 09:58 PM   #155
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

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Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
For me the 5v5 vs 11v11 excuse is moot anyway when past football games, even past Maddens, have offered better/NFL emulating game play aspects than Madden has currently.
Which past Madden had better game play than 18? No matter which one you name I guarantee you I'm going to be able to find videos on YouTube which are going to show they were absolutely broken. Whether or not you chose to take advantage of those tactics is moot, but they certainly existed.

The three most recent editions I played the most had the following game breaking glitches.

M11: you could trigger the "fall forward" animation when your RB got tackled almost 100% of the time, so it was almost impossible to stop a simple run game. If I wanted to I could've done nothing but run Strong Close dive and toss all game and there's nothing you or the LOLAI could do about it.

M12: There wasn't a single defensive assignment in the game which would make an AI player defend a simple TE streak. They had to be user guarded and the timing was incredibly difficult to pull off. If you did manage to cover the TE you could just throw a WR streak because it's probably open or could be user caught.

M25: There was absolutely no defense in this game.

If you're going to try to tell me that PS2 era Madden was better then I'm going to take this opportunity to remind you that Randy Moss was the best DT in the league for most of those games, and Brian Finneran was the most dominant WR who ever lived.
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:03 PM   #156
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

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Originally Posted by stinkubus
The "excuse" for CFM is that EA doesn't believe the sort of additions and changes advocated here will effect the bottom line enough to make it worth the time and expense, LDO. I don't contend that most of the features people ask for would be difficult to implement, they just won't increase the profitability of the game. If the people working at Tiburon, who's livelihood literally depends on how well Madden sells, thought they could get rid of another 500k units (to reach par with NBA2K) by beefing up franchise mode they would've done it a LOOOOOOOOOONG time ago.

The one feature I do believe would be difficult to implement in CFM is a balanced player progression system. I'm very hopeful that the archetype system when used in conjunction with custom draft classes (to ensure a good distribution of archetype and ability in the draft) will be able to limit the snowballing.

Right now the only limits in place are diminishing returns to XP which don't kick in until your player is already good enough that it doesn't much matter. If the draft is balanced enough that the player is put in the position of having to pick players (due to their superior starting ability) which they can't easily develop (wrong archetype) then we'll have ourselves a game.

What I don't expect is the AI to be good at any of this. The AI always has, and probably always will be, a pushover. This will probably remain true even once technology advances to the point that competent AI could run on a gaming console. Making the game too challenging, out of the box, would negatively effect sales. The best you'll ever get is the ability to customize to your liking.

If you want a challenge play against other humans. If you choose to play single player you know what you're getting (it's been the same for 30 years!) so don't act surprised or angered because you should've known better.
First of all, nobody cares about the bottom line. Not a single one of us.

Second of all, people really need to stop using this argument. There's plenty of examples of consumers rewarding depth and complexity in sports games. It's an old, exhausting, innacurate argument.

Third, even if it weren't profitable, other competent development teams have managed to please multiple playerbase through the use of customization and efficient use of development time over years.

Lastly, placing the blame on consumers for purchasing a monopolized, heavily flawed, product is practically the devils work. They bought the exclusive license. They make the game. They make the promises, the slogans, etc. They're the ones being completely outclassed by their peers. They're the ones asking for 65 dollars a year of my very hard earned money. The relationship between corporation and consumer is increasingly problematic, and you should seriously take a second to think about why your comfortable blaming those who simply want the enjoy their product at a level comparable to other products they spend roughly 65 dollars on. Especially on a website designed partly for those purposes.

A company essentially hijacked a pastime that millions of people enjoy, heavily diluted the product, and now you're trying to blame the consumers, simply for trying to maintain and save that hobby.

I'll let you guys get back to fighting the good fight, but I just couldn't let this one pass.

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Old 06-19-2018, 10:05 PM   #157
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkubus
The "excuse" for CFM is that EA doesn't believe the sort of additions and changes advocated here will effect the bottom line enough to make it worth the time and expense, LDO. I don't contend that most of the features people ask for would be difficult to implement, they just won't increase the profitability of the game. If the people working at Tiburon, who's livelihood literally depends on how well Madden sells, thought they could get rid of another 500k units (to reach par with NBA2K) by beefing up franchise mode they would've done it a LOOOOOOOOOONG time ago.....
I did a quick Google search for confirmation and found this:

https://kotaku.com/5800955/madden-nf...popular-demand

"It's crazy how many people play Franchise," said Looman; internal figures peg the user base of the multi-season campaign mode at 90 percent of those who play the game.

And EA even requesting "the sort of additions and changes advocated here.."

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...47&postcount=1

That just what I was able to find quickly and I also recall them reiterating something along those lines after CCM/CFM was done, so the notion that Franchise mode doesn't move units and what OSers value in this type mode is moot, seems contrary to at least what EA Tib claims. Also the fact that they do work on and invest in the mode, albeit not with a NFL authenticity implication like I'd like to see, flies in the face of the bold.

To put it another way, Madden has a version of Franchise mode, like other sports game have, EA Tib generally implements stuff into Madden's Franchise mode, like other games do to theirs and EA markets authenticity in Madden, like other games do but when it comes to providing authenticity, those other game's modes far exceed what's in Madden. Again, there is no excuse for that.
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:54 PM   #158
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
I did a quick Google search for confirmation and found this:

https://kotaku.com/5800955/madden-nf...popular-demand

"It's crazy how many people play Franchise," said Looman; internal figures peg the user base of the multi-season campaign mode at 90 percent of those who play the game.

And EA even requesting "the sort of additions and changes advocated here.."

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...47&postcount=1

That just what I was able to find quickly and I also recall them reiterating something along those lines after CCM/CFM was done, so the notion that Franchise mode doesn't move units and what OSers value in this type mode is moot, seems contrary to at least what EA Tib claims. Also the fact that they do work on and invest in the mode, albeit not with a NFL authenticity implication like I'd like to see, flies in the face of the bold.

To put it another way, Madden has a version of Franchise mode, like other sports game have, EA Tib generally implements stuff into Madden's Franchise mode, like other games do to theirs and EA markets authenticity in Madden, like other games do but when it comes to providing authenticity, those other game's modes far exceed what's in Madden. Again, there is no excuse for that.
Iím just posting your post to piggyback a bit... I buy madden every year for my football fix and because there is no other options. Like I said before Iíve played every one since 88, so I guess Iím a creature of habit and feel like itís something I have to have and try out every year. Rarely if ever am I playing that game in November or December though as it loses me after a month or 2. Thatís it though, itís not because itís a great in depth game. My point is that Iím sure there are thousands of people like me that buy the game out of habit and because itís all we got. If all of us who were tired of the lack of progression took a few years off those would be huge losses, but because of exclusivity and jonesing for a football fix it wonít ever happen. At least it wonít for me because I clearly have a problem! So the numbers posted in a earlier post are skewed imo. Madden thinks oh numbers look great and we are where we should be or want to be. Ya, but if they sent polls out To all who bought it and truly collected all their thoughts and opinions Iíd think we would have a 50/50 split of people dissatisfied...

The numbers saying 90% play cfm and the lack of depth or effort put in it year after year is dare I say it again in here ďinsultingĒ! So, the most used portion of their game by the people who buy the game every year goís untouched and thatís not a slap on the face?! I will say I do like Ben and loved the last college football game! Shoot there are things in that game that should have but still havnt made it over. But Iím glad Ben is here and heading this up. Give him a little rope EA and I think we could be in good hands. Problem is ultimately the suits and the limited vision through a cone.

Iím a believer like field of dreams that ďif you build it they will comeĒ. 2kís depth in all areas of their game as well as their marketing (Iím not a huge fan of but canít argue results), 2k e-league, social media, 2k interactive tv, real freelance offenses, my league depth, etc... if madden did this no doubt in my mind they would see a HUGE spike in sales! 2k has built on this every year. They have built their reputation. Madden has built one as well but in a different direction. 2kís past has earned my trust with their development team. Like someone posted earlier madden has such high turnover where 2k does not. Why is that? That has clearly hurt this franchise or at least not helped it any...

Like you said BIG there is no excuse... itís time to step up their game!
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:55 PM   #159
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkubus
Which past Madden had better game play than 18? No matter which one you name I guarantee you I'm going to be able to find videos on YouTube which are going to show they were absolutely broken. ...

If you're going to try to tell me that PS2 era Madden was better then I'm going to take this opportunity to remind you that Randy Moss was the best DT in the league for most of those games, and Brian Finneran was the most dominant WR who ever lived.
So out of all that you choose to cherry pick the part about past Maddens and misquote it too because I said better game play aspects, smh but ok.

I'm not going to bother listing exactly what Madden year this stuff was in, feel free to do your own Google-fu but this is all game play stuff from PS2 era Maddens. Route based passing, AI based option routes, more fluid running animations, 1st/2nd/3rd string subs, complete formation subs and defensive assignments. Those game play elements off the top of my head, from a gamer that preferred other football games like Joe Montana Sports Talk, 2k football, over past Maddens, not to mention an appreciation for elements in games like Tecmo Football, NFL GameDay and NFL Fever.

EDIT: Dynamic weather and weather impacting game play.

Last edited by Big FN Deal; 06-19-2018 at 11:08 PM. Reason: Remembered some more
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Old 06-19-2018, 11:19 PM   #160
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Tired of these bum *** madden producers catering to these ďcompetitiveĒ players. * Itís funny to Me because the players they cater to arenít competitive at all. * *These lames abuse and exploit the game. * Year after *year EA leaves that fake *** nano blitz In the game , and for what?... *To cater to these lames. *EA needs to grow sone balls and make a real ****ing NFL football game for us real nfl fans.*
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