T4VERTS Interview with Clint Oldenburg

[briz1046]

Quote: Originally Posted by stinkubus

Nice strawman. I was only pointing out a potential pit fall to add bad snaps to the game. I never advocated any of this other garbage you've posted.

I think the point being made was that your objection was based on the potential of a whole game or lengthy sequence of bad snaps occurring because it would be essentially a weighted dice roll , which in theory in an infinite universe is true .

The point is though is in reality , the whole game is built on such dice rolls , and these outcomes don't happen , even if the maths means it's possible , and even then safeguards to prevent it are easy

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by briz1046

I think the point being made was that your objection was based on the potential of a whole game or lengthy sequence of bad snaps occurring because it would be essentially a weighted dice roll , which in theory in an infinite universe is true . The point is though is in reality , the whole game is built on such dice rolls , and these outcomes don't happen , even if the maths means it's possible , and even then safeguards to prevent it are easy

Thank you.

[stinkubus]

Quote: Originally Posted by briz1046

I think the point being made was that your objection was based on the potential of a whole game or lengthy sequence of bad snaps occurring because it would be essentially a weighted dice roll , which in theory in an infinite universe is true . The point is though is in reality , the whole game is built on such dice rolls , and these outcomes don't happen , even if the maths means it's possible , and even then safeguards to prevent it are easy

I don't believe the safeguards are any where near as easy to implement in practice as you do. As evidence I would submit most of the current limitations of the game.

[Americas Team]

Bottom line is that they need competition. Theirs an opening in the market for a realistic sim football game but no one wants to invest in it because lack of NFL license. If Madden had serious competition, I bet a lot of these features that are supposedly too hard to implement and not fun would make it into the game. Looks like we'll never see the potential of football video games in our life time, this saddens me.

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[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by triplechin

I think inaccurate snaps would lead to more natural kick and punt blocks. It's part of the game to me, I dont understand the competitive POV where that would be less fun than a WR dropping a ball. But, that's neither here nor there. Definitely agree that there are 1000 other things to be implemented ahead of things like this, I'm just not a fan of the reasoning given for exclusion

I agree with your first paragraph 100%, it's usually frustrating for me to encounter POVs about Madden development, that seem to fly in the face of conventional wisdom gleaned from being exposed to the sports gaming genre for over 20 years. It feels like context constantly gets ignored in favor of semantics, group think, narrow mindedness, idk what but somehow the simplicity of what is being asked for gets convoluted.

Take "botched snaps" for example, I understand that to mean snap variety. It's akin to any other animation variety already available in Madden, the way snaps are now would be like having every throw and catch being uniform and complete every time. So people aren't asking for just "botched snaps", they are asking for snap variety, of which the chance of a botched snap should be inherent. Imo one of the reasons something so simple gets lost in translation regarding Madden is the starting POV that realism is at odds with fun, so the moment anything realistic is suggested for Madden, it's unnecessarily filtered through that POV.

That's why I disagree with your last sentence because botched snaps, ie snap variety shouldn't be a feature, neither should pass inaccuracies, multiple injuries, etc, they should be inherent. Snaps are in the game, so there should be varieties of them, passes are in the game, inaccuracy should be a part of them, injuries are in the game, a player should be able to have multiple.

These aren't features and shouldn't be subject to that criteria, they are fixes and/or additions to broken and/or incomplete existing core football systems/aspects in Madden.

[edaddy]

Quote: Originally Posted by briz1046

I think the point being made was that your objection was based on the potential of a whole game or lengthy sequence of bad snaps occurring because it would be essentially a weighted dice roll , which in theory in an infinite universe is true . The point is though is in reality , the whole game is built on such dice rolls , and these outcomes don't happen , even if the maths means it's possible , and even then safeguards to prevent it are easy

Great points..every play in football is a dice roll..you have to depend on actions , strategies, and technique which all have to add up to be succesful..Football is not a prpredictable game..

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Armor and Sword

That’s great. But I think we can all agree there are at least 15-20 other things that are far more important to us offline franchise players, than this. If they added this and said hey here is a back of the box feature for you! Bad snaps. Yawn. Far more bigger fish to fry still. I am glad this particular item is not top of mind. What is discouraging though is, we all know this game will never strive to be a true sim.

No disrespect intended by this post if I come off harsh, I tend to do that accidentally.

At the last you stumbling into why this conversation is had. Is the particular feature important in the grand scheme? No, not at all. It's a small part of a bigger conversation, and to many people it is a microcosm of the last half of your post.

The point isn't, "We want EA to drop everything and put in fumbled snaps now!"

The point is, "We want an EA that says, 'Fumbles snaps are part of the game, how do we find a meaningful and engaging way to implement them when the time comes.'"

If Clint's answer had been, "That's not a priority right now because there's a million other things that have a much greater impact on the authenticity of our title," I don't think anybody would have had an argument. What he did was drop the old "F" word that is used to justify every aspect of the game that isn't sim from QB AWR having no effect on the game to not having a deep and realistic contract negotiation system, to not having the right damn players holding for field goals.

So no, fumbled snaps are not a big deal, but I ask you this; they were apparently a big enough deal a few years ago that bad snaps (not even fumbled, just bad snap animations) were actively removed. That took time, that took man hours. What that an authenticity move?

The small details are important to address because EA is known for letting the small details slip. No big deal to you? Fine, don't participate, but don't get mad if someone else wants to use their time to help protect the small things for you.

And again, man, nothing but respect for what you do for this community, you're a respected name and it's deserved, all I'm saying is that the little things are as important as the big things, they're just sometimes harder to see amid all the big things.

[Armor and Sword]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

No disrespect intended by this post if I come off harsh, I tend to do that accidentally. At the last you stumbling into why this conversation is had. Is the particular feature important in the grand scheme? No, not at all. It's a small part of a bigger conversation, and to many people it is a microcosm of the last half of your post. The point isn't, "We want EA to drop everything and put in fumbled snaps now!" The point is, "We want an EA that says, 'Fumbles snaps are part of the game, how do we find a meaningful and engaging way to implement them when the time comes.'" If Clint's answer had been, "That's not a priority right now because there's a million other things that have a much greater impact on the authenticity of our title," I don't think anybody would have had an argument. What he did was drop the old "F" word that is used to justify every aspect of the game that isn't sim from QB AWR having no effect on the game to not having a deep and realistic contract negotiation system, to not having the right damn players holding for field goals. So no, fumbled snaps are not a big deal, but I ask you this; they were apparently a big enough deal a few years ago that bad snaps (not even fumbled, just bad snap animations) were actively removed. That took time, that took man hours. What that an authenticity move? The small details are important to address because EA is known for letting the small details slip. No big deal to you? Fine, don't participate, but don't get mad if someone else wants to use their time to help protect the small things for you. And again, man, nothing but respect for what you do for this community, you're a respected name and it's deserved, all I'm saying is that the little things are as important as the big things, they're just sometimes harder to see amid all the big things.

I don’t disagree my man. I went on a little tangent. But I am all aboard the big picture with many of you.

It’s just frustrating. After Madden 16 I was so gung ho about them turning the tide and heading towards a more simulation minded approach to gameplay....then we went backwards with 17 and even the fully patched 18.

Tackling alone is just “ugh” compared to the direction of 16.

That pinball tackling that was infamous on Madden 12 is so prevalent on Madden 18. Everything seems like a hit stick tackle now. Wrap up tackles, dragging defenders, fighting for extra yards was going in such a good direction on 16 and now EA went 5 steps back imo.

We are talking about tackling. One of the most important elements of a football game to give it a realistic feel and it was again changed.

I don’t get it.


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