SimFBallCritic Analyzes Man Coverage in All-Pro Football 2K8 and Madden 20

[khaliib]

Quote: Originally Posted by illwill10

Exactly. APF gameplay still holds up very well today. I would love a new APF game. 2k has better brand recognition than in 2007 and the want for a different licensed football is strong enough where a APF would do a lot better now. But going back on topic, he had another video detailing difference on deep safety play. The main problem in Madden is AI. The CPU AI isn't intelligent enough to read and react. The AI is so scripted and follows coverage assignments regardless of what is happening in front of them. You shouldn't see Deep Safeties dropping back 10 yards when the offense route combinations are dictating it. Madden needs to have AI be intelligent to read and react. The game just feels so scripted.

But before they had the safeties reacting to WR in front of them and Clint got crucified concerning the deep ball behind them.
So they adjusted the AI to adhere to coverage rule of the play.

Again for the essence of fun in H2H play variables are set to produce more open passing.

Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth are set short (some are 12yrds)
- the original counter-balance to this was the Superman jumping LB’s
- jumping LB’s was reduced, but the Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth was not touched so

Where the issue above really becomes an eyesore is Zones in the Endzones because the logic/coverage rules become muddled.

Lastly, the high QB THP is a user “bailout” and destroys both Man/Zone Coverages.
- ball speed is set at “20’s” creating these 30+yrd zipline throws (again H2H fun factor)
- the ball speed is overriding the variables in my previous post, esp Read/React.

I’ve suggested to Clint for 3 yrs now, simply supply a robust Gameplay Customization Suite (ability to adjust these very aspects) and a lot of these issues would be remedied at the User level for their personal experience.

[Darth Aegis]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

But before they had the safeties reacting to WR in front of them and Clint got crucified concerning the deep ball behind them. So they adjusted the AI to adhere to coverage rule of the play. Again for the essence of fun in H2H play variables are set to produce more open passing. Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth are set short (some are 12yrds) - the original counter-balance to this was the Superman jumping LB’s - jumping LB’s was reduced, but the Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth was not touched so Where the issue above really becomes an eyesore is Zones in the Endzones because the logic/coverage rules become muddled. Lastly, the high QB THP is a user “bailout” and destroys both Man/Zone Coverages. - ball speed is set at “20’s” creating these 30+yrd zipline throws (again H2H fun factor) - the ball speed is overriding the variables in my previous post, esp Read/React. I’ve suggested to Clint for 3 yrs now, simply supply a robust Gameplay Customization Suite (ability to adjust these very aspects) and a lot of these issues would be remedied at the User level for their personal experience.

I can attest to the ball speed. I've decreased the ball speed and has improved coverage significantly.

Why haven't you created your own gameplay mod sir?? (:

Your knowledge would be a huge help on the PC side!

[threattonature]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

But before they had the safeties reacting to WR in front of them and Clint got crucified concerning the deep ball behind them. So they adjusted the AI to adhere to coverage rule of the play. Again for the essence of fun in H2H play variables are set to produce more open passing. Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth are set short (some are 12yrds) - the original counter-balance to this was the Superman jumping LB’s - jumping LB’s was reduced, but the Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth was not touched so Where the issue above really becomes an eyesore is Zones in the Endzones because the logic/coverage rules become muddled. Lastly, the high QB THP is a user “bailout” and destroys both Man/Zone Coverages. - ball speed is set at “20’s” creating these 30+yrd zipline throws (again H2H fun factor) - the ball speed is overriding the variables in my previous post, esp Read/React. I’ve suggested to Clint for 3 yrs now, simply supply a robust Gameplay Customization Suite (ability to adjust these very aspects) and a lot of these issues would be remedied at the User level for their personal experience.

I was just about to come in here and say this but you said in a much more robust way lol. Give the user more options on customization.

Hell I'd even kill for something as simple as NCAA used to have where one of the coaching adjustments was to allow users to adjust their zone coverage to deep, normal or shallow.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Quote: Originally Posted by illwill10

But going back on topic, he had another video detailing difference on deep safety play. The main problem in Madden is AI. The CPU AI isn't intelligent enough to read and react. The AI is so scripted and follows coverage assignments regardless of what is happening in front of them. You shouldn't see Deep Safeties dropping back 10 yards when the offense route combinations are dictating it. Madden needs to have AI be intelligent to read and react. The game just feels so scripted.

At this point, I wish they would just take franchise mode out of the game. Put us out of our misery.

Want to be Esports, online and MUT. Great! Do that. And more power to you, obviously its working out. Just stop teasing us with the rest. Might even further your quest, not wasting resources elsewhere.

[Kanobi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Americas Team

Why have they not made another APF? I would even take a remaster or remake.

1 - https://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=3713403
2 - https://forums.operationsports.com/f...84&postcount=2

All the information you need.

[Darth Aegis]

Quote: Originally Posted by Madden08PCgmr

At this point, I wish they would just take franchise mode out of the game. Put us out of our misery. Want to be Esports, online and MUT. Great! Do that. And more power to you, obviously its working out. Just stop teasing us with the rest. Might even further your quest, not wasting resources elsewhere.

So you would rather have less? That logic doesn't make sense to me. I mean they're adding things to Franchise yr to yr, bit by bit. No way there going to make everyone happy one way or another every yr. Looking forward to what they add this yr, it's what it is.

[tril]

Quote: Originally Posted by Milticket

It didn't sell very well at all is probably the main reason. A remaster would be great though, no draft/franchise mode makes this game unplayable for me though. I liked many things about APF, but always liked Madden a bit more in the end for whatever reason. https://www.pastapadre.com/2007/08/0...on%20the%20PS3.

biggest misstep by 2k is not including a franchise mode.
The game would have built better momentum as far as long term sales, which would probably have warranted a newer version of APF2k.

[tril]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

But before they had the safeties reacting to WR in front of them and Clint got crucified concerning the deep ball behind them. So they adjusted the AI to adhere to coverage rule of the play. Again for the essence of fun in H2H play variables are set to produce more open passing. Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth are set short (some are 12yrds) - the original counter-balance to this was the Superman jumping LB’s - jumping LB’s was reduced, but the Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth was not touched so Where the issue above really becomes an eyesore is Zones in the Endzones because the logic/coverage rules become muddled. Lastly, the high QB THP is a user “bailout” and destroys both Man/Zone Coverages. - ball speed is set at “20’s” creating these 30+yrd zipline throws (again H2H fun factor) - the ball speed is overriding the variables in my previous post, esp Read/React. I’ve suggested to Clint for 3 yrs now, simply supply a robust Gameplay Customization Suite (ability to adjust these very aspects) and a lot of these issues would be remedied at the User level for their personal experience.

if that's the case, they can still do this by having the AI play more logically.
NFL QB's have to fit passes into tight windows, coverage alot of the time.

Madden's AI in coverage is horrible. the worst DB's in The NFL are maybe 1-2 steps behind when they get beat, and recover to make said tackle. Blown coverages do happen, but in Madden 90% of the catches by wr seem to be blown coverage where the receiver is open by 5+ yards. not realistic.

even in Madden, the zone coverage doesn't seem or feel organic, when compared to 2k.

Madden and 2k are fundamentally 2 different games. Madden is highlight driven. 2k does a good job replicating the little nuances that make football, football, which is supposed to be tactical.