Home

Reminder: EA blatantly lied to us about Scenario Engine in Madden 20

This is a discussion on Reminder: EA blatantly lied to us about Scenario Engine in Madden 20 within the Madden NFL Football forums.

Go Back   Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Football
eFootball 2022 Review
FIFA 22 Review
Hot Wheels: Unleashed Review
Poll: What's more important to you, when the time comes to purchase a game? (Click to vote)
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-02-2020, 08:33 AM   #33
Aqua?!
 
bigd51's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Yoouuu never know!
Posts: 625
Re: Reminder: EA blatantly lied to us about Scenario Engine in Madden 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantBlue76
One can only laugh when you keep hearing people say silly things like "The Suits". Such a statement couldn't be more ridiculous. While there is definitely a product team who is going to influence what gets implemented, they have absolutely ZERO effect on HOW it is implemented. There are no executives standing over programmers and designers telling them what code to write and how. It's a completely ridiculous narrative that has somehow garnered momentum over the years. It exists only to provide some sort of comfort to the folks holding out hope that someday Tiburon can deliver the game they want, and the developers holding that fate in their hands are merely held back by the horrific demons known as "The Suits". This would certainly explain why player movement, wind, weather, ball physics and trajectories, tackling and interactions are a complete **** storm every single year. If it weren't for those pesky "suits"!
I have to disagree w/ this.

While it's true that the suits aren't hovering over the devs' shoulders telling them how to code, Rex has already said that he approached the suits about taking a year to fix a large part of the gameplay issues and he was shot down. He approached them about fixing the O-line to form a realistic pocket but he was told it wasn't marketable.

You can't fix these types of issues if the main priority set from the suits is always a new feature they can sell on the back of the box. You also can't fix these issues when you have over a decade of bad code and legacy issues that you also have to work around.

With that said, I will agree w/ you that the devs are partly responsible when they promise a new feature like the Scenario Engine will be deep and rewarding, then fail to deliver on that promise. That is certainly on them. But as far as legacy gameplay issues such as ball trajectory, tackling animations, and physics, every fix they implement could break something else and they simply aren't given enough time/resources to control them.

If you want an example, take the rope physics in The Last of Us 2. Something as small as that took them 3 months to get right. Things like physics aren't easily fixable when the suits up top don't give the devs carte blanche to fix them.
bigd51 is offline  
Old 07-02-2020, 09:54 AM   #34
Moderator
 
kehlis's Arena
 
OVR: 41
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 26,634
Re: Reminder: EA blatantly lied to us about Scenario Engine in Madden 20

And not just Rex, Ian said the same thing after he left as well.
kehlis is offline  
Old 07-02-2020, 10:05 AM   #35
Banned
 
OVR: 28
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,301
Blog Entries: 2
Re: Reminder: EA blatantly lied to us about Scenario Engine in Madden 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by kehlis
And not just Rex, Ian said the same thing after he left as well.

Madden was completely rewritten for the 360/ps3. How much more of a free reign do you get than that? Rex is also on record touting that Marketing doesn't tell him what to do. After he quit he stated that he couldn't build the game he wanted. Which is it?


Then there was this quote from Madden 18 (I believe):


"We've gone through about 35 or 40 of the top legacy issues in Madden, everything from a slower player chases down a faster player from behind to man coverage doesn't cover corner routes ever, I could go on and on, purples don't play purples. Hard flats get sucked out from the flat. Over and over and over, this list of recurring themes. We've managed to fix almost all of them..."


Madden 25 touted the complete rewrite of the O line and D line. Did marketing people say, "You can completely rebuild it, but only rebuild it half ***"? Does Marketing like the fact that passing trajectories have been marketed as "features" for several releases since Madden 13? How many times do you have to redo it?


He also made it a point to say that the "reaching through bodies" was fixed - which actually wasn't. I even sent him a screen shot at the time after seeing it happen in the very first game I played and I was met with the response - "You win some, you lose some". Remember the whole "Through your body" song thing?


So now what you are telling me is that he lied?

Last edited by GiantBlue76; 07-02-2020 at 10:12 AM.
GiantBlue76 is offline  
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 07-02-2020, 10:23 AM   #36
Banned
 
OVR: 5
Join Date: Jan 2008
Re: Reminder: EA blatantly lied to us about Scenario Engine in Madden 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by kehlis
And not just Rex, Ian said the same thing after he left as well.
Above developers might dictate what features get implemented, but it's the designers and programmers that implement it poorly.

So, Madden is what it is because of both. People who say "Suits" have a point, while GiantBLue saying "developers/programmers" also has a point.

We shouldn't get caught in a "prison of two ideas", where only one can be true. Both can be true.
bucky60 is offline  
Old 07-02-2020, 10:24 AM   #37
Rookie
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Sep 2012
Re: Reminder: EA blatantly lied to us about Scenario Engine in Madden 20

People, it's all based on job security and marketing.

Devs need jobs, so they swallow hard and take their marching orders from the suits.

Journalists need jobs, and in order to get interviews they play nice.

The marketing cycle of yearly releases prioritizes flash over substance at the expense of any real progress.

AND YOU ALL KEEP BUYING AND KEEP BITCHING.

Until you stop buying -- which we'll know about when the numbers show it (Hah! good luck...) -- save the vitriol.

Personally, I've sworn off The Show, Madden, and 2K because all their efforts have gone towards monetization modes (DD, MUT, MyPlayer). Screw them.

My salvation has been Super Mega Baseball 3. At least I know they're not feeding me crap and playing corporate games. Jump in. The water's fine.
Fuimus Troes is offline  
Old 07-02-2020, 10:30 AM   #38
Banned
 
OVR: 28
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,301
Blog Entries: 2
Re: Reminder: EA blatantly lied to us about Scenario Engine in Madden 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky60
Above developers might dictate what features get implemented, but it's the designers and programmers that implement it poorly.

So, Madden is what it is because of both. People who say "Suits" have a point, while GiantBLue saying "developers/programmers" also has a point.

We shouldn't get caught in a "prison of two ideas", where only one can be true. Both can be true.

That is absolutely true - I am not saying that Madden hasn't suffered from their product team demands. The thing is - if it were all on "the suits" as many like to claim, would Madden really be as bad as it is? It would still be lacking in content, but if the existing content actually worked and worked REALLY well, it would be a MUCH better game. There is plenty missing from the game which you can blame product for. That doesn't excuse what IS in the game from being so poor.



How many times is the Madden team going to redo player movement? The animations in Madden are terrible. Suction, warping, unrealistic interactions have been a major frustration for as long as one can remember. The "suits" seemed to be ok with the team redoing it several times. What was the latest one? RPM?


EVERY software shop deals with the business side not knowing their head from their ***. It's a frustrating balance that will forever plague software shops. It is not exclusive to the development team at Tiburon.


EDIT: One can comb through the many posts just recently after the announcement of the new features and see the many responses which resemble this - "All of this sounds good, but whether it actually works is a whole different story. I'll need to wait to see it." Is that due to the "suits"?

Last edited by GiantBlue76; 07-02-2020 at 10:41 AM.
GiantBlue76 is offline  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:25 PM   #39
Underdog
 
CM Hooe's Arena
 
OVR: 45
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Culver City, CA
Posts: 19,582
Re: Reminder: EA blatantly lied to us about Scenario Engine in Madden 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantBlue76
The bottom line is Madden is a giant piece of crap. It has been a giant piece of crap since the day the exclusive deal was signed, and it will continue to be a giant piece of crap.
Enough.

I get that we're all justifiably mad about Franchise mode, but this sort of rhetoric is entirely unacceptable for this forum and has been unacceptable at Operation Sports for literally the past forever.

We've had a constructive criticism clause in the Terms of Service for at least a decade, and it says verbatim:
Quote:
Bashing a game developer is not constructive at all, for any reason. Bashing a game period is not constructive.
Everyone, please review that part of the Terms of Service, take it to heart, and take a deep breath before writing your next post.

I am locking this thread now. If you have questions about the Terms of Service and/or how they are being enforced, please feel free to send a PM to a forum administrator.
__________________
Christopher Hooe
CM Hooe is offline  
Closed Thread


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Football »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:14 PM.

Top -