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The Need For Physics Based Engine

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  • #1
    lambo3500
    Rookie
    • Jul 2016
    • 71

    The Need For Physics Based Engine


    "Seemingly, the major issue with Frostbite is that it was an engine built for a specific purpose: first-person shooting and multiplayer. The problem is manyEA games obviously aren't first-person shooters: BioWare builds RPGs, Ghost Games makes racing games, and Madden and FIFA are sports sims."

    I pulled this quote from an article by gaming journalist Mike Williams from usgamer.net.

    Does anyone else feel that gameplay will never feel "authentic" until a realtime physics engine is implemented.The frostbite engine is a beautiful engine for games that were intended for it such as the Battlefield franchise, however there have been numerous mentions from developers of the issues faced in their titles when using the engine.

    In comparison to Backbreaker's Euphoria Engine which is based on real time physics, Madden's usage of Frostbite is simply not comparable. Maadden's usage of Frostbite has shown a lack of momentum, force, weight, velocity (acceleration & deceleration), and other elements related to physics with interactions between players. But don't take my word on it, simply look at the interaction of players and the physics between the Euprhoira engine used in Backbreaker and many Rockstar titles used in their R.A.G.E engine (backbone/source code is from Euphoria).

    Bonus video on ragdoll effects from Backbreaker. Great demonstration of how the RB doesn't simply morph through the blocker, but instead is also interacting directly with the player regardless of who's team they are on. Here is another great moment where the receiver catches the ball and barely posses it, and the defender aims for the hands of the player, and his momentum and force make the ball jolt the opposite direction of the receiver.
  • #2
    asantead22
    Banned
    • Mar 2014
    • 385

    Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


    Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

    It seems like EA will not invest in a true physics based engine! The current animation driven engine feels obsolete and awkward!


    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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    • #3
      lambo3500
      Rookie
      • Jul 2016
      • 71

      Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


      Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

      Originally posted by asantead22
      It seems like EA will not invest in a true physics based engine! The current animation driven engine feels obsolete and awkward!


      Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
      Couldn't agree more. The animations make the games so forced towards whatever the engine chooses to determine on a particular play and or interaction. Quite honestly since playing GTA IV, many games feel very unnatural since using it's ragdoll physics based engine. Embarrassing that EA with all that money refuse to use a separate engine for Madden, let alone sport games.

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      • #4
        asantead22
        Banned
        • Mar 2014
        • 385

        Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


        Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

        Originally posted by lambo3500
        Couldn't agree more. The animations make the games so forced towards whatever the engine chooses to determine on a particular play and or interaction. Quite honestly since playing GTA IV, many games feel very unnatural since using it's ragdoll physics based engine. Embarrassing that EA with all that money refuse to use a separate engine for Madden, let alone sport games.


        EA executives have ruin the game. The development team is partially to blame but more on the top management! Its sad Backbreaker was created by a company from Europe and they had an physics engine EA could not duplicate!
        I praying the Next Gen will have something positive or we are doomed!


        Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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        • #5
          asantead22
          Banned
          • Mar 2014
          • 385

          Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


          Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

          Originally posted by lambo3500
          Couldn't agree more. The animations make the games so forced towards whatever the engine chooses to determine on a particular play and or interaction. Quite honestly since playing GTA IV, many games feel very unnatural since using it's ragdoll physics based engine. Embarrassing that EA with all that money refuse to use a separate engine for Madden, let alone sport games.


          Its too sad a small company from England made a better physics based football game than a company which has been making football 20 yrs before them! Lol I pray the Next Gen will be a true Next Gen experience but I will not hold my breath!


          Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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          • #6
            Dblock1111
            Rookie
            • Jun 2007
            • 276

            Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


            Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

            I think the true game changer is when we'll be able to make a physics-based animation-influenced game. While backbreaker was great to see a completely physics bases game, football players don't rag doll on contact.

            There were some great test scenes in the old Euphoria Engine community version that you could run and adjust to have a player being tackled while trying to run, or really running through a tackle that were amazing.

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            • #7
              lambo3500
              Rookie
              • Jul 2016
              • 71

              Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


              Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

              Originally posted by Dblock1111
              I think the true game changer is when we'll be able to make a physics-based animation-influenced game. While backbreaker was great to see a completely physics bases game, football players don't rag doll on contact.

              There were some great test scenes in the old Euphoria Engine community version that you could run and adjust to have a player being tackled while trying to run, or really running through a tackle that were amazing.

              I will agree that at times the ragdoll effect could be a bit too much, but for a game that came out in 2011 it was definitely way beyond it's time compared to Madden's usage of frostbite + rEaL pLaYeR mOtIoN.

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              • #8
                Dblock1111
                Rookie
                • Jun 2007
                • 276

                Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


                Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

                Originally posted by lambo3500
                I will agree that at times the ragdoll effect could be a bit too much, but for a game that came out in 2011 it was definitely way beyond it's time compared to Madden's usage of frostbite + rEaL pLaYeR mOtIoN.


                Agreed, it sucks that a company like EA forces all their devs to use their engine even if it's not optimal for the game type just to save money on licensing.

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                • #9
                  lambo3500
                  Rookie
                  • Jul 2016
                  • 71

                  Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


                  Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

                  Originally posted by Dblock1111
                  Agreed, it sucks that a company like EA forces all their devs to use their engine even if it's not optimal for the game type just to save money on licensing.
                  I have read that the Euphoria engine is quite pricey, but I highly doubt it's that expensive that a major AAA publisher like EA with all the billions pulled in from Sales, let alone Ultimate Team would have a hard time licensing or even making their own engine for sport titles (even better if an exclusive engine for football considering they are really major/AAA publisher developing a football title). However, the question is with Ultimate Team revenue, and the lack of competition why do it to begin with.

                  I really hope 2k puts out a really great game next year despite it being arcade (hopefully not a a mimic of their WWE arcade release or Live Jam), but something similar to the yard or street series with better physics. With decent to great sales, they could definitely gain interest from the NFL to maybe alter the contract, and possible finally allow for competition from both companies. Now personally I would be done with EA for the foreseeable future, too much bad blood from them, but I would love to see 2k and EA fight for my money.

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                  • #10
                    Kanobi
                    H*F Cl*ss *f '09
                    • Apr 2003
                    • 6057

                    Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


                    Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

                    Maximum Football 2020 has some really nice physics based tackling. Granted, more contextual animations are needed but the foundation they have in place is impressive.

                    Not sure what 2k has planned but if Visual Concepts is attached to any of their football projects then its hard to imagine them not pushing for authenticity with physics-based gameplay.

                    Despite rampant frustration, Madden's gameplay is considered by most to be in a good place. Hard to imagine Tiburon jeopardizing that with a shift to a new engine anytime soon.

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                    • #11
                      ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
                      MVP
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 4682

                      Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


                      Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

                      It's football. That's a hard thing to ask for.
                      Originally posted by Therebelyell626
                      I am going to create a team called "the happy town fundament rapscallions" and hurt your already diminishing image
                      https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2049813056

                      Last edited by your mom; 06-06-2006 at 6:06 PM.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        asantead22
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2014
                        • 385

                        Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


                        Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

                        EA's BS is finally catching up with the #NFLdropEA campaign! Finally the executives are feeling heat for releasing a subpar game the last 8 yrs! I am so curious if they will delay the release of their so-called NEXT Gen Title?


                        Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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                        • #13
                          Nza
                          MVP
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 3437

                          Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


                          Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

                          The fact EA aren't at the forefront of physics based sports gaming is an annual embarrassment. I mean, I doubt EA feel any embarrassment (imagine scrooge mcduck jumping into a pile of money), but you know what I mean.

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                          • #14
                            ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
                            MVP
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 4682

                            Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


                            Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

                            I’d be far more interested in a canned animation based game that had sound football logic than a rag doll football game tbh.
                            Originally posted by Therebelyell626
                            I am going to create a team called "the happy town fundament rapscallions" and hurt your already diminishing image
                            https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2049813056

                            Last edited by your mom; 06-06-2006 at 6:06 PM.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              asantead22
                              Banned
                              • Mar 2014
                              • 385

                              Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine


                              Re: The Need For Physics Based Engine

                              Originally posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
                              I’d be far more interested in a canned animation based game that had sound football logic than a rag doll football game tbh.


                              It all depends on if the rag doll physics game played more like real football or not! At this point, I simply want a quality NFL game! Period!!!!


                              Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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