Can someone explain sub specialists vs depth chart?

[SouthernWarrior]

More of a football question not madden one

If I have a 3-4 defense when exactly are my SubLB slotCB, Rush LE/RE/DT coming in and how does that affect players simulated reps if they are my #1 LE as the rush LE or my #1 MLB as my sub LB? Does the next person who backs him up just take his spot in the game in those spots then? It would seem depth is important in those cases

Same question for slot WR.. if I make my #1 wr my slot guy... is my #3 WR going to get more reps? I find whoever I put as my specialists always have the best stats out of any WR/DB/PH etc but it does not translate to the Dline.

Also confused on when my starting OLB rush the passer as DE’s but are not showing up as specialists?? Thanks

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Its generally easiest to treat them like two separate depth charts. The traditional depth charts cover "traditional" defenses (4 or fewer DBs). Aside from a few oddball formations like 4-3 Wide 9, this holds.

Once you send out the 5th DB, it starts using the sub packages (sublb, slcb, rre, rle, rdt) and overrides whatever you had on the traditional ones. So if you put your top DB as the top slot corner, he'll play the slot and it will move everyone up the normal depth chart one space.

Coach adjustments take priority over that, so if you start moving guys around in game then it will have ripple effects as well.

[SouthernWarrior]

Quote: Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC

Its generally easiest to treat them like two separate depth charts. The traditional depth charts cover "traditional" defenses (4 or fewer DBs). Aside from a few oddball formations like 4-3 Wide 9, this holds. Once you send out the 5th DB, it starts using the sub packages (sublb, slcb, rre, rle, rdt) and overrides whatever you had on the traditional ones. So if you put your top DB as the top slot corner, he'll play the slot and it will move everyone up the normal depth chart one space. Coach adjustments take priority over that, so if you start moving guys around in game then it will have ripple effects as well.

So essentially... if you're playing your top rated guys as "specialists"... you're going to need pretty strong starter worthy backups then, no?

Would someone be able to give an estimate % on average how often "backups" play in terms of reps when your top rated guys are your specialists? I'm swimming games so pretty much at the mercy of my depth charts and playbooks.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Quote: Originally Posted by SouthernWarrior

So essentially... if you're playing your top rated guys as "specialists"... you're going to need pretty strong starter worthy backups then, no?

Well if you are putting your top DB in the slot then naturally your #3 corner is going to be set up outside now. It's really about where you want to deploy your guys to get the best matchups. One key use of the rush depth charts is to shuffle around your DL to limit the effect of blocker resistance. If you have a top RE, you may want him on the left for passing downs for that reason.

Quote:

Would someone be able to give an estimate % on average how often "backups" play in terms of reps when your top rated guys are your specialists? I'm swimming games so pretty much at the mercy of my depth charts and playbooks.

It depends on how many nickel+ defenses your AI is calling.

[OJsakila]

Quote: Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC

Well if you are putting your top DB in the slot then naturally your #3 corner is going to be set up outside now. It's really about where you want to deploy your guys to get the best matchups. One key use of the rush depth charts is to shuffle around your DL to limit the effect of blocker resistance. If you have a top RE, you may want him on the left for passing downs for that reason. It depends on how many nickel+ defenses your AI is calling.

Solid info. Thanks. +1

[SouthernWarrior]

Quote: Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC

Well if you are putting your top DB in the slot then naturally your #3 corner is going to be set up outside now. It's really about where you want to deploy your guys to get the best matchups. One key use of the rush depth charts is to shuffle around your DL to limit the effect of blocker resistance. If you have a top RE, you may want him on the left for passing downs for that reason. It depends on how many nickel+ defenses your AI is calling.

Can you explain this to me, I don't get this? Why does a top RE move to LE on passing downs then?

My scheme is a 3-4 storm so everyone other than my MLB (pass coverage) and CB's/Safeties (Zone) are aiming to be "Speed Rusher" specialists.

I think I read somewhere that RRE and RLE serve different purposes though?

Also in a 3-4 storm (using the Ravens defense) how often is a nickel being called estimated?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Quote: Originally Posted by SouhernWarrior

Can you explain this to me, I don't get this? Why does a top RE move to LE on passing downs then?

Are you playing 21? The offensive linemen have a resistance bar which goes up every time a DL attempts a move. So, on first down you come out in a regular 4-3. The RE (Let's say Jerry Hughes) goes outside on a spin for example. On 2nd down, you come out again in a 4-3, the LT now has a point of resistance outside against Hughes specifically. Now it's 3rd down and you come out in Nickel with Hughes at RLE. Now he is on the opposite side, lining up against the RT and the RT does not have resistance points against him, making Hughes' move more likely to succeed.


If you keep Hughes in the same spot all game, the offensive lineman will eventually develop a ton of resistance and start to shut him down. The resistance system encourages you to sub guys in and move them around.

Quote:

My scheme is a 3-4 storm so everyone other than my MLB (pass coverage) and CB's/Safeties (Zone) are aiming to be "Speed Rusher" specialists. I think I read somewhere that RRE and RLE serve different purposes though?

I can't really speak to franchise, I am an online guy exclusively, but maybe I can explain this a different way.


Let's say that on First down, you come out in a 3-4 Solid with no coaches adjustments against regular I-Form Close.

Imagine we're looking from the usual camera view behind the offense, your guys will line up like so


#2CB - #1FS - #1SS - #1CB


#1ROLB - #2MLB - #1MLB - #1LOLB


#1RE - #1DT -#1LE


Ok, now imagine it's 3rd down and you want to come out in 3-3-5, now it looks like this:


#2CB - #1SLCB -#1FS - #1SS - #1CB


#3SUBLB - #1SUBLB -#2SUBLB


#1RRE - #1RDT -#1RLE


So you can see how the back four of the secondary are still drawing off the original depth charts but the front seven are now pulling from the specialist depth charts.


Two important notes: 1) specialist depth charts have priority. So if I put in Micah Hyde (my #1 FS) in as a Slot Corner, he'll play Slot Corner whenever its on the field and my #2 FS will come off the bench to play FS. The lineman specialist packages AFAIK have priority over the SUBLB, same deal.



2) Specialist depth charts are activated by the formation you pick, not game situation. So if you come out in a 4-3 on 3rd and 20 for whatever reason, it's going to roll out your normal lineup even if that's your run-stopping group.

[SouthernWarrior]

Quote: Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC

Are you playing 21? The offensive linemen have a resistance bar which goes up every time a DL attempts a move. So, on first down you come out in a regular 4-3. The RE (Let's say Jerry Hughes) goes outside on a spin for example. On 2nd down, you come out again in a 4-3, the LT now has a point of resistance outside against Hughes specifically. Now it's 3rd down and you come out in Nickel with Hughes at RLE. Now he is on the opposite side, lining up against the RT and the RT does not have resistance points against him, making Hughes' move more likely to succeed. If you keep Hughes in the same spot all game, the offensive lineman will eventually develop a ton of resistance and start to shut him down. The resistance system encourages you to sub guys in and move them around. I can't really speak to franchise, I am an online guy exclusively, but maybe I can explain this a different way. Let's say that on First down, you come out in a 3-4 Solid with no coaches adjustments against regular I-Form Close. Imagine we're looking from the usual camera view behind the offense, your guys will line up like so #2CB - #1FS - #1SS - #1CB #1ROLB - #2MLB - #1MLB - #1LOLB #1RE - #1DT -#1LE Ok, now imagine it's 3rd down and you want to come out in 3-3-5, now it looks like this: #2CB - #1SLCB -#1FS - #1SS - #1CB #3SUBLB - #1SUBLB -#2SUBLB #1RRE - #1RDT -#1RLE So you can see how the back four of the secondary are still drawing off the original depth charts but the front seven are now pulling from the specialist depth charts. Two important notes: 1) specialist depth charts have priority. So if I put in Micah Hyde (my #1 FS) in as a Slot Corner, he'll play Slot Corner whenever its on the field and my #2 FS will come off the bench to play FS. The lineman specialist packages AFAIK have priority over the SUBLB, same deal. 2) Specialist depth charts are activated by the formation you pick, not game situation. So if you come out in a 4-3 on 3rd and 20 for whatever reason, it's going to roll out your normal lineup even if that's your run-stopping group.

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I'm playing purely simulation on Madden 21. So I adjust my scheme, depth chart and just sim to the next week (not on slow/fast mode just from the franchise main screen). So not sure if your 1st paragraph works on simulation mode.

Thanks for the help, it makes more sense now.

Which positions if your using your top specialists would you say need the most depth then? Sub LB (So MLB most likely and possible safeties) and CB?? In the 3-3-5 you put I had no idea it's possible you would have all 3 of your Specialist SUBLB in the game at once. So then the starting ROLB and LOLB aren't playing then for that snap?