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Next Gen Stats: Is it capable of taking Madden to the Next Level

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Old 06-24-2021, 02:39 PM   #1
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Next Gen Stats: Is it capable of taking Madden to the Next Level

This is a Fantastic read BTW

https://venturebeat.com/2021/06/17/h...ext-gen-stats/

1st off I'm a off line player and prefer playing vs the CPU. In recent years the CPU AI simply hasn't reacted on the field the way most of us would like.

Thank about all the hours every year we have to spend editing CPU QB's to behave properly or have to wait on a patch to fix the issue....

Wouldn't you agree?

EA had something similar to Next Gen stats in NBA Live called Player DNA (Synergy) if I'm not mistaken which was supposed to bring NBA Live Player tendencies to life so that each Player would perform and react differently on the court.

Needless to say I think that was all a smoke screen because Live IMO never truly felt like Player DNA/Synergy was the backbone of gameplay because it was fighting against the actual player ratings side of the game which really dictated gameplay as opposed to Synergy.

Fast Forward to Madden and these comments from Clint Oldenburg makes me worry that Next Gen Stats might not truly change the gameplay in Madden the way I was hoping it would especially for OL/DL play

Madden NFL 22 will have improvements to catching, tackling, and blocking. Tiburon uses Next Gen Stats for player movement and tendencies, Madden designer Clint Oldenburg said in a clarification email. “So that data will have an indirect impact on the types of interactions that play out based on the speed, acceleration, and momentum of the players entering the interaction,” Oldenburg said. “But we are not using Next Gen Stats in our ratings system right now, thus it will not impact the outcome of the play.”

As for blocking, Oldenburg said, “We’re not using robust Next Gen Stats data in the blocking space quite yet, but it could have an indirect impact based on the movement of the players.”
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Old 06-24-2021, 04:10 PM   #2
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Re: Next Gen Stats: Is it capable of taking Madden to the Next Level

I will say the next gen stats movement alone has taken this game to a new level. I know comp people do not like it, but sim gamers, I kid you not when I say it is that good. Of course my opinion, but movement itself is to the next level, the rest has to catch up of course.
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Old 06-24-2021, 04:18 PM   #3
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Re: Next Gen Stats: Is it capable of taking Madden to the Next Level

Next gen stats had an incredibly noticeable impact in the overall movement of 21 as well as the route running in particular. If the rest of the game can attain the quality level through next gen stats then Madden would be seen in a much brighter light by me. I hope they continue to use it to make the gameplay more authentic like they used it for the movement and route running in 21.

Anyone who played NG 21 couldn't deny the clear difference there was in look and feel.

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Old 07-10-2021, 06:56 PM   #4
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Re: Next Gen Stats: Is it capable of taking Madden to the Next Level

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBleedingRed21
I will say the next gen stats movement alone has taken this game to a new level. I know comp people do not like it, but sim gamers, I kid you not when I say it is that good. Of course my opinion, but movement itself is to the next level, the rest has to catch up of course.
So, I saw a video that shows Next Gen Stats for QB's doing gameplay.

In one video it had Justin Herbert with the following stats:

Last Season Deep Passing

Deep Pass QBR 104.7
Deep Pass Att Freq 10.3%
Deep Pass Completion Rate 37.7%

What I would like to know is since Herbert had a 10.3% deep pass Attempt Frequency would those percentages translate over to his in game playing style?

Is Herbert based on Next Gen Stats going to take deep shots when I play the Chargers roughly 10% of the time.

I've read up on Next Gen Stats and how it impacts player movement but I haven't seen EA really talk about how the Next Gen Stats will translate to their player tendencies on the field.

I'd like to see those types of numbers play out for Herbert when I'm playing the Chargers and not have him dump off every pass short to drive up completion % doing gameplay.

I'm hoping that these next gen stats aren't just something we see pop up doing games just for presentation alone. I want them to greatly impact or be a driving force as to how the actual player will perform on the field.
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Old 07-10-2021, 08:03 PM   #5
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Re: Next Gen Stats: Is it capable of taking Madden to the Next Level

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmakers
So, I saw a video that shows Next Gen Stats for QB's doing gameplay.

In one video it had Justin Herbert with the following stats:

Last Season Deep Passing

Deep Pass QBR 104.7
Deep Pass Att Freq 10.3%
Deep Pass Completion Rate 37.7%

What I would like to know is since Herbert had a 10.3% deep pass Attempt Frequency would those percentages translate over to his in game playing style?

Is Herbert based on Next Gen Stats going to take deep shots when I play the Chargers roughly 10% of the time.

I've read up on Next Gen Stats and how it impacts player movement but I haven't seen EA really talk about how the Next Gen Stats will translate to their player tendencies on the field.

I'd like to see those types of numbers play out for Herbert when I'm playing the Chargers and not have him dump off every pass short to drive up completion % doing gameplay.

I'm hoping that these next gen stats aren't just something we see pop up doing games just for presentation alone. I want them to greatly impact or be a driving force as to how the actual player will perform on the field.
Go read the gridiron notes if you get a chance, it covers this. Yes, their tendency will be based on next gen stats and will even change through live player updates through the real nfl season in play now and other modes that are live roster based. Franchise mode will update based on how their playing in your seasons.

Not sure if you played the beta but I’ve posted examples earlier in other threads of this actually working through what they call Star Driven AI. Not only do players behave as you would expect, teams do. Ravens will be run heavy finally where a team like the Bills will be more pass heavy. It’s much improved.
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Old 07-12-2021, 12:11 PM   #6
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Re: Next Gen Stats: Is it capable of taking Madden to the Next Level

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBleedingRed21
Go read the gridiron notes if you get a chance, it covers this. Yes, their tendency will be based on next gen stats and will even change through live player updates through the real nfl season in play now and other modes that are live roster based. Franchise mode will update based on how their playing in your seasons.

Not sure if you played the beta but Ive posted examples earlier in other threads of this actually working through what they call Star Driven AI. Not only do players behave as you would expect, teams do. Ravens will be run heavy finally where a team like the Bills will be more pass heavy. Its much improved.
I am definitely interested how this will work for Franchsie mode. When I read the note, I can see this working really well for play now, and versus real opponents. But when we are year 2 or 3 will of Franchise and have fictional rookies will they have unique tendencies or feel similar. While they will change on how they're playing from a sim perspective will that work? In past madden's QB's like Lamar barely had any rushing attempts. Obviously, you can't answer that, and they state it will be unique but saying and doing are two different things.
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Old 07-12-2021, 12:12 PM   #7
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Re: Next Gen Stats: Is it capable of taking Madden to the Next Level

For me the big question mark for Next Gen Stats driving gameplay and tendencies is dealing with franchise mode as things change in YOUR franchise. I am not just talking about drafted players but what about a current player who ends up with a new coach or on a new team. The tendencies could/should change based on system. QB is the easiest example to discuss.

If a current QB is in a vertical passing system now, chances are he is taking more shots downfield. His real life stats show indicate that and impact that QB in Madden in your franchise. That is great and all, but... 3 years into your franchise, the coaching staff changes and the new offense is a West Coast system. How does that impact that same QB? Will he still take the shots based on real life NGstats? He probably should not as the offensive system has changed and therefore the QBs tendencies should change.

Now I know that to a certain extent, QBs are going to be themselves regardless of the system they play in, but the system should impact the QBs tendencies. Perhaps that is done simply through playcalling and thus not allowing the QB to match those tendencies. Or will, regardless of playcalling, will the NGstats impact force the QB to make throws they should no longer make simply because of how the NGstats impact the game?

There are so many variables in this.

Now, EA did mention that stats from your own franchise will drive tendencies as well. This adds yet another layer onto the process.
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Old 07-12-2021, 01:48 PM   #8
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Re: Next Gen Stats: Is it capable of taking Madden to the Next Level

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iteachpercussion
For me the big question mark for Next Gen Stats driving gameplay and tendencies is dealing with franchise mode as things change in YOUR franchise. I am not just talking about drafted players but what about a current player who ends up with a new coach or on a new team. The tendencies could/should change based on system. QB is the easiest example to discuss.

If a current QB is in a vertical passing system now, chances are he is taking more shots downfield. His real life stats show indicate that and impact that QB in Madden in your franchise. That is great and all, but... 3 years into your franchise, the coaching staff changes and the new offense is a West Coast system. How does that impact that same QB? Will he still take the shots based on real life NGstats? He probably should not as the offensive system has changed and therefore the QBs tendencies should change.

Now I know that to a certain extent, QBs are going to be themselves regardless of the system they play in, but the system should impact the QBs tendencies. Perhaps that is done simply through playcalling and thus not allowing the QB to match those tendencies. Or will, regardless of playcalling, will the NGstats impact force the QB to make throws they should no longer make simply because of how the NGstats impact the game?

There are so many variables in this.

Now, EA did mention that stats from your own franchise will drive tendencies as well. This adds yet another layer onto the process.
The gridiron notes literally tell you that real players will change based on how they're doing in YOUR seasons as you play. Playcalling, player tendency will all update as you play. How much, how quick, how good? Only time will tell when we get to play the full build and sink time in it.
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