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This is why the AI rarely trades

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Old 09-25-2021, 01:19 AM   #1
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This is why the AI rarely trades

I don’t know if this was fixed in Madden 22.

In Madden 21 the trade value of a player is determined by a handful of factors but as a base it appears to start inside a range of OVR. (An 88-79 OVR = 2nd round pick with no modifiers)

The reason why you don’t see trades very often is because the AI is lowballing itself. It uses the trade block and makes offers as if the player had one full pick’s value LOWER than he actually does. Resulting in a decline like 99.9% of the time. When you accept a trade block offer, you are also being lowballed and accepting an offer that the AI would not.

You occasionally see low pick trades happen particularly because 4th-7th round picks seem to be in the same tier with very, very similar value. These are so rare as well because the AI just hardly makes offers for players at 73 OVR and below.

It is likely that happens in the draft as well. Teams probably do try to trade their first round picks, but don’t offer enough value. I’m just speculating that though, haven’t tried to test it.

And this is all very game breaking for me. I’d appreciate it if anyone could let me know if this was fixed in M22.
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Old 09-25-2021, 04:02 AM   #2
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Re: This is why the AI rarely trades

That is interesting.

While I don't have or play Madden 22, we all know that Madden has legacy code going back to the PS2 days which has been uncovered by PC users. As a result, I would least like to shine light on Madden 12 and Madden 25 logic and how the developers might have adjusted trade logic over the years.

In Madden 12, trades were so "fair" that they could be abused and cheesed. While I don't have the bookmarks on my phone, there are multiple sources which break down real life trades and track approximate trade values across the NFL over the last 20+ years and also track trends and changes over time. We all know about the Jimmy Johnson trade value chart and how teams have modified it over the years. In addition to that, it is generally accepted that a future draft pick is worth half of its mid round value. This means, if we are using a 1000 point scale for the #1 overall pick, then the 15th/16th pick is worth 310 points, and a future first round is worth about half of that at 155 points. Furthermore, teams are willing to trade a current round selection for a future selection one round higher. There was at least one occasion where (if I recall correctly) the 49ers traded a future first round for a high second round selection with the Bears in the early or mid 2000's.

Using this logic and values, Madden 12 would accept "fair value" trades offered by the user. Especially so if you offer it just a smidgen more value. Well, as you can imagine, in a win now league, teams in real life do not have the patience us users have to grind out long term value. With patience, you can trade down and out of early round positions for future value. Because you know that each season you will get a brand new set of 7 draft selections and ignoring supplemental picks (which cannot be traded anyway), you can imagine how trading down for value, and trading 5th-7th round selections for one round higher each year can quickly snowball into two-three years down the line where you have 16+ selections. You use some to keep the engine going, but still make 12+ selections and several of those can be in the first three rounds.

What does this have to do with what you wrote? Well, by the time Madden 25 rolled around, Josh Looman and Tiburon addressed this by telling the computer to demand more than just a fair trade. They want a little extra juice to make a trade worth their time. The same is true for players. If you are initiating the trade, then you don't have much leverage and they will low ball you. However, at least in Madden 25, once you declined a trade in the trade block, they AI would then simulate which team(s) were interested and who had what the other team wanted and didn't seem to ball the trade like you mentioned. As a result, you would see several - but not all - trade block offers go through.

Similarly, when you put players on the block, you would get a range of offers to choose from.

During the draft, if you selected trade down, you would get a few low ball deals, but you could still go into a manual trade and cook up a deal of your own. I am not sure if Josh just increased the value of future selections, because I think he went beyond that.

So, with that background information and how trade logic changed from one year to the next, I can see how - over the last 8 years - the logic has continued to be changed... for what appears to be the worse.
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:45 AM   #3
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Re: This is why the AI rarely trades

Lack of trades in Madden never really bothered me because there’s really not that many trades in real life. Is not like other sports.
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:49 AM   #4
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Re: This is why the AI rarely trades

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJin2011tm
Lack of trades in Madden never really bothered me because there’s really not that many trades in real life. Is not like other sports.

Same. Plus regarding the other post which mentioned how CPU’s sometimes want non-fair trades, well, Id rather have that system where I have to give up more and some superstars are completely unobtainable (Mahomes, Brady, etc) vs a game like 2K where if you stack 1st round picks or 2-3 decent players you can get LeBron or Curry.


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Old 09-25-2021, 01:20 PM   #5
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Re: This is why the AI rarely trades

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJin2011tm
Lack of trades in Madden never really bothered me because there’s really not that many trades in real life. Is not like other sports.
My biggest issue is the lack of trades during the draft. There doesn't need to be a trade every 10 picks, I've never seen the CPU make a trade during the draft one time.

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