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M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

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Old 10-28-2012, 01:14 AM   #801
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weewam
One thing I would like to examine is the differences between game flow and ask madden playcalling. Ive tried both with the slider sets, and have a couple of non-data supported conclusions.

There are two areas of concern between game flow and ask madden. The first is play variety. Again, I didnt take notes so I don't have data to support my claim, but I feel that game flow offered a greater variety of plays. Or, to be more specific I guess, game flow offered more variations in different situations. I felt like anytime I was in a certain situation, say 2nd and short, I would get the exact same play suggestions from ask madden.

The second area of concern lies in realistic statistics. I had the impression that game flow provided a better experience as a realistic nfl sim. In general, the plays seemed more difficult to execute, and that difficulty translated into more realistic stats at the end.

I don't know how many others got the same impression as I did. I was hoping that Wiz could find the time to incorporate this into his lab testing to get a definite answer. I'm going to be doing the same thing to find out which style of playcalling provides the best experience as an nfl sim with these sliders.

Got your back pimp... The winner DEFINITELY is GAMEFLOW. My concern is that on GAMEFLOW, you can dial up an "aggressive" run defense an infinitude amount of times. And as my little lab test already bore out, if you consistently "dial-it" up, the type of sliders you will need, would not do justice to the presentation of the animations nor the SIM experience. Let me explain.

Certainly we can all agree that if you dial up CPU BRK TKL, and RUN BLK, to "99".... And dial down HUM RUN REAC, BLK SHED, and TKL, to let's say "1".... And set the SPEED THRESH to "0", I assure you, that you will not be able to stop the CPU running game AT ALL. And herein lies the rub. And then to counter the cartoonish animations, and a BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSST CPU RB, you then have to dial up the HUM RUN REAC, BLK SHED, TKL sliders, and move SPEED THRESH up to 65 or higher. Are you starting to see the problem?

If you tweak the RUN BLK and BRK TKL sliders too much, the animations become cartoonish, non-Sunday like. So in essence, to maintain a balance between great animations, realistic stats, a credible CPU running game, and allow the HUM to control the HUM defensive play-calling and action by switching defenders constantly, the AI in M13 cannot deliver the goods for all these wishes. Sooo, something's gotta give.

What I have proposed be sacrificed is HUM Defensive control. By foregoing, switching defenders, and having to play within "vanilla" defenses provided by Ask Madden, the CPU run game can "breathe", stretch out it's legs, and produce respectable stats, while keeping the animations from becoming cartoonish.

The problem I have with GAMEFLOW, is that you do indeed have a selection of more plays than ASK MADDEN. So if you factor in the competitive nature in each one of us, our tendency would be to "cheese it" and find the most aggressive, balanced, blitz, and simply annihilate the A.I. for the CPU running and passing as my previous post bore out in the lab.

Now, if you are going to make a "pinky promise" to lay off the aggressive defense selections in GAMEFLOW and play a more "balanced" defensive approach, then GAMEFLOW and/or calling your own BALANCED defensive plays, will do the trick with this slider group. The key here is being honest with yourself and keeping the "pinky promise."

I have noticed that if I accept the "vanilla/lame-a.ss" defenses provided by Ask Madden, I don't have to worry about "the pinky promise" and can have a competitive, realistic, properly animated sim experience. In fact, with regards to the audibles I choose on Defense, if I choose any type of blitz package (and I do choose a few), I make sure that the blitz package IS NOT BALANCED. Why? Because my data has proven time and time again to me in the lab, that it is not the blitz that is the killer, it is the BALANCE of the blitz that the A.I. cannot process. It's as if the new "infinity engine" that produces all the funny pinball like collision animations, "freezes up" for a micro-second of indecision when you dial up a balanced blitz, and it's this microsecond that allows the HUM defensive blitz to "surround" the CPU RB and not allow him to be productive. If the blitz is unbalanced, it's as if the CPU RB is programmed to cut away from the direction of the blitz and not necessarily run into the teeth of it like it does when the blitz is balanced.

A lot of rambling, I know. But I get really pumped up to share what I see and track in my lab/cave.

Bottom line is that CPU run game is broken in M13, even post-patch. However, IF YOU ARE willing to make the "pinky promise" or buy into my HOUSE RULES, you can work around this inherent flaw in M13.

Just my 2 cents...

Back to the lab...






to finish testing the tune-up....






Stay tuned...


Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:29 AM   #802
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturzinator
Are you assigning the CPU a playbook, as is being discussed in the main page thread, or are you using the default team specific books?

Assigning the playbooks as in that thread makes an impressive improvement to CPU game play.

Just curious if you had experimented with that at all.

Yup, I do change the CPU playbook... And I agree with the premise of the switching playbook theory.... HOWEVER, IT IS NOT the mix, or the balance of plays, that creates the problem in trying to achieve the Holy Grail of Madden, a true SIM experience. I define a true SIM experience to be: a) realistic animations, b) realistic stats, c) a competitive balance that creates that drama that makes us feel warm and yummy inside when we lose d) to know that in any given game, the outcome does not favor the HUM player e) BEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSTSSSS players, play like BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTSSSSSSSS

What my data supports as the problem, is the havoc the HUM can create by not using a BALANCED approach to offense and defense.

On defense, if you constantly dial up, BALANCED blitzes, your sacks go sky high, and you absolutely ANNIHILATE the CPU running attack. With the present slider set, I have been able to hold guys like GORE, AP, Foster, Forte, McFadden, and the like to a YPC average of 1.3, by dialing up balanced blitzes by the LB's and Safety's. Oh sure, I can design sliders to beat the overly aggressive HUM play calling, but then the animations would be TOTALLY out of whack and the Holy Grail of Madden would not exist.

Please read my "Pinky Promise" premise in the above post where I discuss this.

Bottom line for me is that if you want to find the Holy Grail, you have to sacrifice control over the HUM defensive play calling or make a "Pinky Promise" to yourself and keep it ..




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Old 10-28-2012, 01:35 AM   #803
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by chino22
Wiz, hook us up with those new sliders! I'm ready to try them out...

Waasssssssup peep? Working as I type... Wifey forced me to take a six hour break, but I put her to sleep, so I am back in the lab....Out.



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Old 10-28-2012, 11:52 AM   #804
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

cool man can't wait for these! I now picture you as a mad scientist pimp lol! Not sure I can give up the control on Defense. I play with the bears and always play with Peppers but do use the game flow option. Looking forward to these, thanks for all your passion and all your hard work.
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:59 PM   #805
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ UPDATED ON 10/28/2012 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



"NEW SPEED THRESHOLD: 66" AMONG OTHER THINGS......



Without further ado, ladies, I present you the sliders that bring us to the precipice of the Holy Grail that we have all been chasing ever since EA gave us sliders...

Are they perfect? Almost.

Go at them, enjoy them, but like always, if you use them, ya gotta come back and post your comments, experiences, and box scores. You guys created these beasts thanks to your detailed feed back that you have provided this thread thus far, so don't stop now, BRING IT!!!!!


"Booo-waaaa-hahahaha...They are ALIVE!!!", exclaimed the mad scientist's wing man......






BETA SLIDERS, POST-PATCH, V.6 (....wow...)


Skill Level: ALL-MADDEN

House rules:
(1) ASK MADDEN ONLY for both OFF & DEF play calling. This rule is a GAME CHANGER!!!!!!! However, you can switch to calling your own offensive plays at the 2 minute mark of each half. Defensive plays ARE ALWAYS called by ASK MADDEN or an audible, NO EXCEPTIONS.
(2) DO NOT USE the right analog stick when there is a run or pass play. In other words, do not use the right analog stick DOWN for a run play by the CPU as the play begins and vice versa, do not push UP with the right analog stick when there is a pass beginning to develop.
(3) On DEF, control ONLY one player, NO SWITCHING on run plays by the CPU. If the CPU call a pass play, you are allowed to switch, ONLY AFTER THE RECEIVER catches the ball (I control the FS, since my hand eye coordination is not that good to tackle as a LB).
(4) On OFFENSE, no hot routes.
(5) Consider having two controllers plugged in when you start your CCM game. Consider for your opponents playbook to switch it to BALANCED, or RUN HEAVY or PASS HEAVY, depending on the type of team you are playing if run / pass ratios have you tripping (I tend to leave it alone, because House Rule #1, addresses the play calling problem by the CPU, in my humble opinion).
(6) After starting your game, hit pause after the kickoff return is done and set your DEF audibles. Be smart on which ones you pick. Make sure you have at least a few that are balanced DEF calls. Make sure you have at least one for short yardage, long yardage, and a good defense against screens.
(7) Before you even start a CCM franchise, or before you re-start a pre-existing CCM franchise, set your OFFENSIVE audibles for your CCM franchise’s offense. Make sure you pick at least one screen, one draw, and two play actions for the two most common sets your offense runs (usually a one TE and two TE set), have one streak, and one zone flood pass.
(8) USE ONLY the right analog stick when attempting field goals, anything else, and you are a CHEESE.
(9) DO NOT SNAP THE BALL until there is less than 5 secs on the clock... This guarantees you a perfect range of plays between 130-145 plays.


Quarter Length: 15 min

Accelerated Clock: On and min. play clock set at 14 or 15 (I USE 15)

Auto Strafe:ON
Auto Sprint: ON

Play Calling: For Offensive and Defensive play calling, ASK MADDEN ONLY!!!!! Only exception is when you reach the 2 minute mark of each HALF!!

Injury: 45 still testing … (if ya don’t like it, you can set this at 35 and fatigue at 65)

Fatigue: 55

Speed: SLOW



THRESHOLD: 66





Game Play Sliders: User/CPU


QB Accuracy 7/7
Pass Block 0/0
WR Catch 55/55

Broken Tackles 4/8
Run Block 0/25
Fumble 5 or 6 (I use 5) /5

Pass reaction 0/0
Int 25/25
Pass Rush 0/0

Rush reaction 0/25
Block Shedding 0/5
Tackle 0/5




Special Teams

FG Power 54
FG Accuracy 44 (the way that I kick is that I just use the right stick in Kicking. I don't aim with the left stick.)
Punt Power 52
Punt Acc 72
Kickoff Power 47


Penalty

False start 75
Holding 52
Face Mask 54
Clipping 54
Roughing the passer 53

The rest are 99 (Please note, I have seen 4 defensive passing interference calls over the last 38 games I have played in the lab, so they do call it, occasionally)


Auto-Subs

(BROKEN, DO NOT SET, LEAVE AT DEFAULT)




Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.



Last edited by MarketingWiz; 10-28-2012 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:15 PM   #806
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

##### HOUSE RULES FOR ABOVE SLIDERS, CAN BE AVOIDED#####



Ladies:

If you keep the "Pinky Promise" that I discussed in Post's #801 & #802, these sliders can work IF you desire to call your own defensive and offensive plays.

But you must heed this WARNING, if you tinker with UNBALANCED PLAY, MONEY PLAYS, CHEESING IT, it would be like putting your hands in the gears of a finely tuned and oiled machine....



You have been warned!!! Don't come cryin' to the thread with dis' or dat', if you can't honor the "Pinky Promise"!!!!

Most importantly, pay attention to the following "moving gears":

1) Balanced blitzing where the coverage is man-to-man with the DB's. So in other words, DO NOT select plays where both OLB's or both SAFETIES, or a COMBINATION of both, are blitzing the line. The A.I. for M13 "crashes" when you do this, and the CPU RB is toast, and/or the CPU Passing game stats go out of whack, and their goes the realism of your game.

2) Do not repeat the same play that made you money back to back. Obviously, you have come across a money play, so exploiting it, BACK to BACK or more than 2 times in the game IS NOT realistic football that is played on Sunday's in the NFL...

3) Choosing blitz packages where the DB's are in a zone coverage is fine, even if the way the play is schemed looks, or is balanced. JUST DON'T go and HOT ROUTE any additional blitzers!!!


What I am doing to get the max realism and achieve BALANCED PLAY for my own teams play calling, is that I GOOGLED the following phrase: "NFL Team Total Offensive Stats - 2013 " (typically the best data comes from "wiseguy" sites that are pimping sports betting), and then figured out the ratios of run to pass, for my CCM team, this 2013 year.

Then when I am playing the game, I MAKE SURE that I have the proper ratio of Passes to Runs that my team has so far this year. MAKES a world of difference and that is why I firmly believe that we are knocking at the door of the Holy Grail of Madden....


Enjoy them, I certainly am!!!



Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.

Last edited by MarketingWiz; 10-28-2012 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:46 PM   #807
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

I would like to get a POLISHED, non-beta set for All-Madden done by the end of November....That way, we can all start a fresh CCM offline or online franchise for the Xmas season and start off the new year in full football bliss...

With your help and input, we can do it...

Get at these sliders and POST box scores.... Going forward, I am going to try to post as many box scores as time permits me....


As always, THANK YOU, for the support, feedback and patience with my rhetoric....

Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:47 PM   #808
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Oh Joy! I had enough listening to the Dolphins embarrass my Jets times like this make me grateful of Madden!

I personally play a lot of Man defense with my DBs as the Jets do IRL. I was worried about the whole forcing myself to use AskMadden on Defense as my favorite thing is to choose which personnel to send on the field and create a defensive gameplan. I feel I call plays sim-like, obviously im going to call a run blitz on an obvioius running situation. Id like more clarification on your last post, I want to be able to call my own defense but I don't want to cheese and its actually possible for people to cheese without knowing it (like when I used to abuse Total Control Passing)

1. So if its say 3rd & 3, they come out in a 2 RB 2 TE set are you saying I shouldn't call Thunder Smoke which rushes 7 guys and leaves my CBs and Ss in man to man? What other play would I call in that situation? I certainly wouldn't call a zone passing defense. What if you limit yourself to only calling a run blitz on situations where the CPU needs 3 yards or less, maybe 2 or less if needed. Maybe picking my own plays until the CPU needs 3 or less yards then using an AskMadden play from 3 or less yards needed? Just wanting some clarity on what to call in those situations the CPU is obviously going to run but not wanting to pick something that is cheese. I do see at times how successful the run blitz is at stopping the CPU so I see why you have that rule.

2. I am enjoying using AskMadden on Offense I have no issue with that. The only negative is that it tends to call similar plays every game and it can get repetitive. I think I found a way around this however. In the great thread about using generic playbooks for the CPU team to fix their run/pass ratios (http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ne-ccm-11.html) there was a post showing every teams M13 Scheme they run. I use the Jets exclusively so the repetitiveness is more up front when you never use any other team. They are a Power Run scheme team. There are lots of other Power Run teams in the game as well such as Arizona, Atlanta, Baltimore, etc.. So what i've been doing is switching my offensive playbook to any of the power run teams. This gives you variety from game to game while still allowing you to play the style of your own team. Just an idea of something to try to keep things fresh while continuing to use AskMadden every game.
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