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M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

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Old 10-31-2012, 04:48 PM   #841
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingWiz
Waddup bro? Yeah, my lab data supports what you say.... I believe what you are trying to say, is that when YOU PICK YOUR OWN PLAY, your own defensive selection IS A LOT MORE EFFECTIVE than that selection chosen by Ask Madden.... Am I correct? Your ebonics (he, he, he) threw me off, so I apologize if I did not get your contribution/feedback properly...

That having been said, let's move forward to address your observation...In my lab testing, I spent more hours than I care to count, trying to figure out how M13 deals with defensive play calling, specifically how the CPU offensive game plan handles defensive play calling from the HUM, either by using Ask Madden, or by self-selection by the HUM.

So, to get to the bottom of my concern, I devised the following test:

I first started my test in Ask Madden.... What I did was track for a period of 32 quarters, all of the MTM (man-to-man) blitz packages out of the 4-3 package that Ask Madden provided to me as a choice. I then would choose this package and track how many times the CPU offensive game plan, ran right into the teeth of my 4-3 blitz package with MTM coverage. Over the course of 32 quarters, that type of blitz package came up less than 5% of the time, in other words, about 4-5 times during AN ENTIRE game. Well, every time it came up, of course I would choose it, and from there I would track what type of offensive play all that the CPU would dial up against it. I did notice that when Ask Madden did provide me that option for HUM defense, it was either on a first down play, or on a shorter yardage play (4 yards or less for the first down) for the CPU. After I would select that type of defense, the CPU ran into the teeth of the defense three times, and that happened on a 3rd and short yardage plays. All of the other times, the defense chose a screen (5 times), short route pass (7 times), long route pass (8 times), outside tackle pitch/sweep/power run (5 time), draw (4 times). The play came up 34 times over 32 quarters. I picked up two sacks.

I then did the exact same test over 32 quarters. Except this time, I would AUDIBLE the 4-3 blitz package with MTM coverage myself every time I was given a 4-3 defense package. So in other words, after I would choose the 4-3 defense from Ask Madden, I would then hit the audible button to select an audible 4-3 blitz package with MTM coverage before the ball was snapped. Very different results. The 4-3 package came up about 38 times a game. So, on 38 occasions I dialed up my 4-3 blitz MTM coverage audible. The CPU ran into the teeth of the defense about 11 times out of those 38 times. Separately, I picked up a total of 4 sacks in those 38 times. What I did not see were too many screens (2), draws (2), or short routes (5), outside tackle runs (4). Longer and medium route passes took the cake with 12 attempts.

The conclusions that I drew from my informal test were that it's almost as if the A.I. cannot "adjust/audible into a better offensive play" to counter the defensive play you chose a 4-3 blitz with MTM coverage via the audible, AFTER the Ask Madden original play was chosen... It's as if when you do Ask Madden, the A.I. already has the proper corresponding play that complements the defensive selection, in other words, it's as if the A.I. "can see your cards" and knows what is the high percentage play to use against your hand. Yet, when you change your hand, the A.I. does not audible into a higher percentage success play against you and in fact seems to stay in the complementing play that was "pre-chosen" to match any of the 3 play option that Ask Madden originally provided...

Now, my data has also indicated that when the CPU A.I. does call a run, it is usually a run between the tackles (about 2/3rds of the time). This may explain why when I audibled my 4-3 MTM coverage blitz package after selecting my Ask Madden play, the CPU A.I. did not adjust. Yet when the same blitz package was chosen as an Ask Madden option, no audibling, the CPU A.I. did not run into the teeth of the defense, but rather tried to find a good play to counter the aggressive defense I selected.

Moral of the story: If and when you decide to call you own Defensive plays, avoid OVERLY aggressive Defensive play calling/constant blitzing, because the CPU A.I., CANNOT/DOES NOT audible into a play with a greater chance of success to counter the HUM play calling. If you don't heed this suggestion, these sliders will BLOW for you.

Don't know the numbers for Game Flow, maybe some bro in this thread with no life, may want to address this test...

Peace.


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yes exactly what I was trying to say lol
Great sliders btw

Last edited by sputney23; 10-31-2012 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:14 PM   #842
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMan350Z
YES YES YES!!!
I have found using the newest set in the OP that calling your own defense does as the Wiz man says make the CPU too stuffable in their run game. I have found they still do fine passing the ball. Still need to see how it affects sacks may need to adjust the CPU Pass Block or USER Pass Rush slider a touch. I will update the link in my sig with what im using if I find something solid, as an alternate to Wiz's base set that allows for full user defensive play calling as long as its okay with him. I know it will make the animations less realistic but I personally am willing to sacrifice some of that as long as I can run my own defense.

I will say the USER Rushing and CPU Rush D is spot on. I am seeing things in all aspects of the game from special teams to rushing to passing that I have never seen with any other sliders.

I have been testing trying to fix the autosub HB situation with lowered Stamina ratings for my and my opponents HBs and it works great. You see the backups come im positive it can be fixed its just about finding the right stamina numbers to get different HB1/HB2 splits and matching that up with real life splits. I am thinking of editing every HB in the game with the new stamina values and uploading the roster for people on 360 to download but that wont't be for awhile
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:27 PM   #843
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMan350Z
YES YES YES!!!
Feel ya brudda.... As I mentioned previously.... I am in the lab with Game Flow (me likin' it thus far) and I am also tinkering with CPU running game and, HUM running game.... I want to make the CPU run game really challenging, that way when you play an ELITE running program with ELITE running backs, the chances of that team MOWING you down are going to be a GIVEN.... And in that same breath, I want to make HUM running game tough to run to the outsides for "gimme/cheese" yards...

If I can get close futzing the CPU/HUM running games to the aforementioned goals, then I believe that calling your own defensive plays with some basic cheese rules, and calling your plays through Game Flow for the offense, may be the final voyage for these sliders... I will also play out the sliders for a full season, to get a feel for the stats, paying close attention to passing, fumbles, pics, combined total scores and rushing game yardage.

If all goes well with the season play through, I will certify the sliders by December, so that we can all breathe a sigh of relief and begin our REAL CCM franchises and start of the new year in football bliss...And at that point, the Wiz will retire, and enjoy the fruits of his work and walk away from the game, as the best there ever was

Peace



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Old 10-31-2012, 05:39 PM   #844
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingWiz
Feel ya brudda.... As I mentioned previously.... I am in the lab with Game Flow (me likin' it thus far) and I am also tinkering with CPU running game and, HUM running game.... I want to make the CPU run game really challenging, that way when you play an ELITE running program with ELITE running backs, the chances of that team MOWING you down are going to be a GIVEN.... And in that same breath, I want to make HUM running game tough to run to the outsides for "gimme/cheese" yards...

If I can get close futzing the CPU/HUM running games to the aforementioned goals, then I believe that calling your own defensive plays with some basic cheese rules, and calling your plays through Game Flow for the offense, may be the final voyage for these sliders... I will also play out the sliders for a full season, to get a feel for the stats, paying close attention to passing, fumbles, pics, combined total scores and rushing game yardage.

If all goes well with the season play through, I will certify the sliders by December, so that we can all breathe a sigh of relief and begin our REAL CCM franchises and start of the new year in football bliss...And at that point, the Wiz will retire, and enjoy the fruits of his work and walk away from the game, as the best there ever was

Peace



Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.
I'm curious what your technique is for using GameFlow? It's different from AskMadden in that you have a Run, Pass or Default option how do you go about picking the play do you always use that middle default option or do you choose Run or Pass by yourself? Also if you switch between them all it changes the plays if you scroll through and back to say Pass again.

I have had fun with AskMadden though I lowered QB Acc to 4 and am starting to lower USER WR Catching (bad i know I just still find it a little too easy to complete passes when im in the zone Sanchez becomes Peyton Manning mode and im trying to avoid that even when Sanchez is in the zone IRL hes still not at that level). The amount of work gone into these sliders from both Wiz and the posters of the thread is what makes these the best damn madden sliders the world has ever known. I may never buy another madden again just pop in M13 with wiz sliders and inhale football greatness
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:58 PM   #845
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianU
I have found using the newest set in the OP that calling your own defense does as the Wiz man says make the CPU too stuffable in their run game. I have found they still do fine passing the ball. Still need to see how it affects sacks may need to adjust the CPU Pass Block or USER Pass Rush slider a touch. I will update the link in my sig with what im using if I find something solid, as an alternate to Wiz's base set that allows for full user defensive play calling as long as its okay with him. I know it will make the animations less realistic but I personally am willing to sacrifice some of that as long as I can run my own defense.

I will say the USER Rushing and CPU Rush D is spot on. I am seeing things in all aspects of the game from special teams to rushing to passing that I have never seen with any other sliders.

I have been testing trying to fix the autosub HB situation with lowered Stamina ratings for my and my opponents HBs and it works great. You see the backups come im positive it can be fixed its just about finding the right stamina numbers to get different HB1/HB2 splits and matching that up with real life splits. I am thinking of editing every HB in the game with the new stamina values and uploading the roster for people on 360 to download but that wont't be for awhile


My brudda from annuda mudda..... Did you have to bust out a canoe or inflatable raft? Whoa nelly, was that serious p1ss from up above or what?

Well, glad you are OK enough to post for the thread....

Regarding where we are at.... Game Flow fixes play calling issues for the HUM player I am finding, very nicely... I like the fact that you can "scroll" back and forth from GAMEPLAN, AGGRESSIVE and CONSERVATIVE and can get a different play recommendation often.... This snuffs out the problems with ASK Madden where you are given only three plays and those three plays DO NO CHANGE even if you exit out and comeback to Ask Madden.... On Game Flow, scrolling gives you more options....

Furthermore, Game Flow, DOES NOT allow you to see your formation, it just gives you the general jist of the defense without telling you what type of defensive set it is for....

This is VERY COOL, because it gives the CPU offense a chance to catch you in the wrong LB/DB/DL package.... In my opinion, the INABILITY to see what set (4-3, 3-4, nickel 2 lb's, nickel 3 lbs's, dollar, etc) your defense is in, helps replicate what happens often on Sundays whereby the O-Coord is trying to out-fox the D-Coord all game long into a defensive package that does not match up well with the O-Coordinators play.... This aspect of Game Flow is off da hook and I like it....What I am doing is in the first few defensive plays, I am changing player personnel, because I want my meaty, fat guys, for run stuffing defenses, and want my nimble, fast, LB and DE's for my pass pressure defenses.... This way when Game Flow picks one of my packages that I have modded the personnel package, I have the right personnel in the play.... I do the same personnel changes on certain offensive sets as well....Super cool when it all syncs up....

I too have found that if I lower the fatigue level, you do see a lot more of the subs happening naturally, and I think I have figured out how the FATIGUE slider works in tandem with the AUTO SUB settings, once again it is based on a hierarchical decision tree ....

Finally, with some futzing that I am doing on CPU Run defense and CPU Run offense, I think I can get this puppy tuned just right to allow full liberty to call your own offensive and defensive plays, with a few logical house rules....

Stay tuned....


Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.

Last edited by MarketingWiz; 10-31-2012 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:17 PM   #846
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianU
I'm curious what your technique is for using GameFlow? It's different from AskMadden in that you have a Run, Pass or Default option how do you go about picking the play do you always use that middle default option or do you choose Run or Pass by yourself? Also if you switch between them all it changes the plays if you scroll through and back to say Pass again.

I have had fun with AskMadden though I lowered QB Acc to 4 and am starting to lower USER WR Catching (bad i know I just still find it a little too easy to complete passes when im in the zone Sanchez becomes Peyton Manning mode and im trying to avoid that even when Sanchez is in the zone IRL hes still not at that level). The amount of work gone into these sliders from both Wiz and the posters of the thread is what makes these the best damn madden sliders the world has ever known. I may never buy another madden again just pop in M13 with wiz sliders and inhale football greatness

Thus far, I have not created any stead fast rules for Game Flow use for myself... Basically, I scroll between GAMEPLAN, CONSERVATIVE and AGGRESSIVE for defensive plays depending on the yardage needed by the CPU offense for the first down or touchdown.... On offense, I go with GAMEPLAN as my #1 option, unless I feel that for the yardage or situation, the GAMEPLAN option was a poor choice by the A.I. For instance, if I need 13 yards for the first and it is third down, the DRAW or a Play Action, WOULD NOT be good choices... So I scroll the PASS option until I get a non-play action play that has a prayer at getting me the yardage I need. I try to be familiar with the play book I am using (I bought the Prima Guide that gives you the plays for every team and have it by my side when I play) so that way I kinda have an idea what type of package I am getting to work with.... On long yardage plays, I like to have at least one TE or RB to help block the rush so I try to memorize the names of those plays that provide me at least one TE if not two and then scroll aggressive a couple of times depending on time available, to try to get the right type of play.... Not perfect, and it does happen that I do not have the right package to block the blitz and I have to scramble out of the pocket and take my chances of trying to complete a pass on the run, and as you well know, depending on the QB you are, this could easily turn into a fumble, or pick six.... STRRRRRESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, but I love it, it feels right....

Because neither Ask Madden nor Game Flow is perfect for complete play calling control, I have a feeling that what is ultimately going to happen is that I am going to use Game Flow for first and second down, and will call my own play on third down...

Stay tuned...


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Old 10-31-2012, 08:30 PM   #847
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Wiz,

These sliders are silly good. My bro was asking me how I was getting good games since he was blowing everybody out with the Redskins. I think he's in for a treat.

One thing I noticed with the newest set is a lack of pass rush. I've played 3-4 games and my D-Line get nowhere. And I have 3 guys rated over 90 on the D-Line. Even when I blitz I don't get any pressure on the QB. Any suggestions? I don't want to mess with the sliders and ruin the goodness that is. Thanks man. Keep it up fo sho.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:01 PM   #848
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

I'm loving the new sliders WIZ. I'm 5 games in my season with these bad boys and will post 2 games that were really fun and totally opposite of each other. This game I struggled throughout but sacked Vick 7 times (Ben sacked 4)! He held the ball awhile and then would try to scramble, to no avail.

FYI: I had 6 drops and CPU had 0.



Philadelphia Eagles at Pittsburgh Steelers
Jan 1, 1ST2ND3RD4THSCORE
Philadelphia Eagles (CPU)71701034
Pittsburgh Steelers (Me)7100724
Team Stats Comparison
PHIPIT
Total Offense372444
Rushing Yards17069
Passing Yards202375
First Downs1416
Punt Return Yards3049
Kick Return Yards91149
Total Yards493642
Turnovers12
3rd Down Converstion53
4th Down Conversion02
2-Point Conversion00
Red Zone Touchdowns/Field Goals2/11/1
Penalties15 yds15 yds
Posession Time31:2128:39
Philadelphia Eagles
PASSINGC/AYDSTDINT
B.Roethlisberger25/4540631
RUSHINGATTYDSAVGTD
R.Mendenhall20653.30
M.Wallace144.00
RECEIVINGRECYDSAVGTD
M.Wallace814818.51
A.Brown612120.22
H.Miller45914.80
R.Mendenhall4287.00
J.Cotchery122.00
E.Sanders13434.00
L.Pope11414.00
Pittsburgh Steelers
PASSINGC/AYDSTDINT
M.Vick16/2122831
RUSHINGATTYDSAVGTD
L.McCoy291334.60
M.Vick6376.21
J.Maclin100.00
RECEIVINGRECYDSAVGTD
J.Maclin510420.82
C.Harbor2126.00
L.McCoy273.50
C.Hall26331.51
B.Celek11212.00
D.Jackson199.00
S.Larsen1000
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