This is a discussion on M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME within the Madden NFL Last Gen Sliders forums.

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Old 11-03-2012, 06:51 AM   #873
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I'm voting Green party!!

What about posting the sim style sliders and making that the main focus for testing but also posting adjustments to allow User defense? From my play time trying user called defense with V5 I feel the only adjustments needed is CPU Run Block, USER INT, and CPU Pass Blocking and possibly USER Tackling if needed but I am leaving it 0.

I have been playing around with V5 to allow me to call defense without feeling cheap as well as increasing USER Rushing difficulty a touch. It felt super hard at first but now that I have learned the ropes I actually felt it being more manageable. I completely see what you mean about average players playing like stars and such.

I am sort of on the fence about using my own plays or having the game call for me on defense. Offense isn't an issue at all I have no problem doing gameflow or ask madden its just the defensive side, defense without your own play calling feels stale since you aren't controlling the main guy like with offense and I dislike the CPU giving me three options for a zone passing defense when I KNOW the CPU is gonna run 2 yards to pickup the first down.. this is using AskMadden perhaps GameFlow would be better as you can pick Aggressive. For me Conventional Playcalling with major house rules would be the ideal option its just a matter of seeing if its feasible without destroying the delicate balance you have crafted allowing the differentiation of teams/players.

I was thinking maybe do Ask Madden on offense, and GameFlow defense. You know what is best, don't break the set if user defense is going to cause issues. As you've said Jarrod has a great set and options I was talking to him the other day. But you offer something different and that's a great thing they are both great sets! please don't abandon the sim style attribute based gameplay if User D isn't of workable function which it very well may not be.

We all trust your noble judgment king Wiz!

Last edited by BrianU; 11-03-2012 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:39 AM   #874
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I want my n!pples hard after you release the more realistic/sim set. My vote is for aniston.

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Old 11-03-2012, 02:05 PM   #875
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it seems to easy to run for me with these settings. with chiefs i averaged like 8 yds a carry
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:49 PM   #876
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Originally Posted by zanev23
it seems to easy to run for me with these settings. with chiefs i averaged like 8 yds a carry

Welcome bro.... Feel ya... Not sure if you have been following the thread all along, but the CPU / HUM running game is the most difficult part of the tuning challenge for M13, if your goal is to dial in a SIM set of sliders...

If you are not interested in a SIM set, stop reading, this thread is not necessarily for you.... SIM players want to find the the Holy Grail of Madden, which simply explained, means to emulate the game on Sunday, on your flat panel, Monday - Saturday....

The way to do this is to try to maintain/keep player attributes as close to the settings dialed in by EA out of the box, WITHOUT letting the slider tuning OVERPOWER the attributes. So the key in essence is understanding how KEY sliders affect underlying player attributes.... Well, I almost have a PhD. on this topic....Here we go....

Factors that mess with the attributes, in order of greatest impact on the attributes, are:

1) SPEED THRESH. PERIOD. There is NO OTHER tuning tool available for M13 that messes with the attributes more than this slider. Higher SPEED THRESH, delivers much more of a SIM experience, and vice versa, lower SPEED THRESH, delivers a much more ARCADE/VIDEO GAME/VISCERAL experience a la NFL Blitz.

2) QB ACC. A VERY, very, sensitive slider, between the ranges of 4-7. Their isn't ANY OTHER slider that changes the stats so drastically, with one or two clicks, as the QB ACC slider. One important note is that if you set the slider to "4", your QB loses velocity on his throws.... So that means that if you throw a flat, outs, or screens, NO MATTER how hard you press on your receivers button, their is "air" under the throw... This impacts accuracy, and interceptions.... I came to the conclusion this past week, that after so much testing in the lab, the OPTIMUM setting for HUM is "6".... For CPU, you can get away with "5".... The CPU stats will be more realistic as far as completion % and drops, but the trade-off is that the "INT Glitch" may show up unless you dial down HUM INT slider, meaning, that even Rodgers can lay a crapper with 5 INT's in one game.... Tied to timing of pass rush and time interaction between O line and D line (BLK SHED)....

3) BRK TKL. Aaaaah, my favorite. No other slider creates weirder animations than a poorly tuned BRK TKL slider.... Personally, for me, it is the most difficult slider to work with.... Why? Because TRUCKING is in the eye of the beholder... I mean, what I consider a solid TRUCKING animation, may not sit well with other PEEPS, that want to see their RB blow up a tackler/blast through brick walls, when that right stick is pushed forward... I tend to dial this slider, on the conservative side, allowing you peeps to move it up based on your preferences... Please be advised that this slider HELPS the better CPU RB trigger, "tackle avoidance" animations, such as jukes, aggressive one-cut's, spin-outs, hurdling, etc.... The issue with this slider is that two issues have to be deal with when futzing with this slider.... 1) Dial it up to high, and you will trigger very weird, "the Matrix" animations whereby the runner with ball will seem to get crumpled to the mat with a tackle, only to see their body compress like Play-Doh and the thighs and calf's keep churning, and then lo and behold, the runner "morphs" into an upright runner and "breaks the tackle" and keeps on running...2) The second challenge is finding the "sweet spot" whereby you do trigger the cool "tackle avoidance" animations for the CPU RB, without causing "the Matrix" to happen for the HUM and CPU RB... This "sweet spot" to date, has been the most elusive for me... SPEED THRESH does impact this slider, since this slider and SPEED THRESH, DO NOT WORK in a linear fashion, but instead in an INVERSE relationship... So, basically the formula is LOWER SPEED THRESH, the HIGHER the BRK TKL...and vice versa, just don't pass the "sweet spot" or you will trigger "the Matrix"... Don't forget that this is one part of "the Bermuda Triad", read below....

4) RUN BLK.... Simplest slider to recommend because it provides IMMEDIATE linear results for improving the CPU/HUM running game.... It works in tandem with SPEED THRESH, so the HIGHER THE SPEED THRESH, the HIGHER THE RUN BLK, in other words A LINEAR relationship.... Finding the "sweet spot" is the trick, and again, I tend to be conservative with this slider...Don't forget that this is one part of "the Bermuda Triad", read below

5) DEF TKL SLIDER. Similar in nature as the BRK TKL slider, it is what brings out the BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAST animation in the SMACKING and HITTING of the defense.... The odd thing about this slider is that IT DOES NOT mess with the tackling attribute linearly.... In other words, if you CRANK this baby up, you do not all of a sudden turn into Dick Butkus... What it does do is EXPONENTIALLY impact is the POW attribute in your defensive player, in other words, the POWER of the hit... This slider is tied to the FUMBLE slider in a linear fashion, which is why when you move this slider up, you need to also futz with the FUMBLE slider UP as well, or you will get WAYYYY to many fumbles....

6) DEF INT slider. Similar to the RUN BLK slider, in the sense that it does provide a measurable impact on the stat line... If you have been paying attention to the stat lines, when you raise this slider above "25", and lower your QB ACC below "6" you make your secondary player a better receiver.... It's hard to explain this slider because it should be set as a percentage of the base setting for WR CTCH slider.... Let me try to explain.... The base setting THIS YEAR for ALL-MADDEN for WR CTCH is 50, in years past, it has been 25... So, if you set the WR CTCH at higher than 50, you are improving the WR's OVERALL attributes (CTCH, RTE RUNNING, CATCH IN TRAFFIC, etc.) by an overall factor of 10%... This is why at "55" setting you see an improvement in catching animations... So the DEF INT slider has to be a percentage of the BASE WR CTCH slider... Typically, a solid defensive players, will catch about half the balls that touch his hands at the average ball throw velocity.... Once their is "air" under your throws, it makes it easier for all defensive players to pick your ball....

7) WR CTCH.... Again, it has less of an impact on actually catching the rock, versus the other WR attributes, which are SEPARATION, RTE RUNNING, Catch in Traffic, etc.... When peeps tell me that the separation is lacking, it's not speed thresh that is the issue, as much as it is the INT slider, the WR CTCH slider, along with the play calling by the HUM player.... Establish the run, learn how to fake a throw to one receiver and throw to your target, use play action, and SEPARATION is NO PROBLEM even at 100 Threshold.... Trust me, I constantly prove this to myself in lab...

8) DEF RUN REAC. This slider is weird because it does not impact INDIVIDUAL attributes as directly or as "harshly" as other sliders in the running game do.... This slider works kind in a "mob mentality" fashion.... In other words, it tends to "slide" the CPU defense toward the direction of the play, as of in "unison".... Some guys call this "syncing".... It does exist and it is a necessary "crutch" for the CPU to deal with those RB's that have the speed and agility to get to the outside.... This slider helps keep the competitive balance in the running game... Since it does not necessarily improve an individual players attributes, but rather improves the defense in a "mob fashion", it doesn't bum my high to crank this slider up and above the ALL-MADDEN setting of "25".....

9) FUMBLE slider.... Linear, tied to DEF TKL'ing slider. Begins to react differently as you raise the DEF TKL'ing slider

10) BLK SHED.... Impacts the amount of time that the O & D lines interact with each other... Need to be very careful with this slider since it impacts, the DE's in the pass rush and LB's and Secondary in the HUM running game... I don't like this slider because it impacts sacks, if your futz with it, but if you don't futz with it, it makes running the ball too easy when running up the middle or off-tackle for both the CPU and HUM.... In other words, DAMNED if you DO, and DAMNED if you DON'T..... And here is where the major problems begin with regards to finding the competitive balance between respecting the player attributes and getting a competitive running game.... Don't forget that "the Bermuda Triad" (read below) is more important, but if you don't make some decisions on how long the o-line and d-line are going to interact, then your whole game will be OUT of whack... This is why I tend to leave it at zero, or set very low, since FOR ME, the true magic in re-creating the NFL experience, starts at the O & D line interaction, in other words the clique is true, the GAME is WON in the trenches...This slider is part of "the Bermuda Triad", read below

11) The remaining sliders also have a role in the game, but are insignificant to player attribute modification/manipulation, so I consider them "neutral" as long as you know which sliders need to remain low or at zero....

Now, to address your running game observation, the trick lies in the "the Bermuda Triad relationship" and SPEED THRESH. To get a proper running game you need to master "the Bermuda Triad" relationship. The triad is finding the SWEET SPOT for the RUN BLK, BRK TKL slider, and BLK SHED that corresponds to the particular SPEED THRESH setting that suits your play style...

So if your running game is too easy, with the present sliders we have in place, YOU will need to make some decisions to suit your style, keeping in mind my two cents of quasi-knowledge that I laid out above....

What would I suggest? SPEED THRESH going up.... But if you can't deal with the game getting slowed down, and still want to try to get a SIM experience, then you would have to take a look at where your running gains are coming from.... If your running gains are coming on outside runs, I would look at house rules specific to you. Then I would look at CPU RUN REAC getting cranked up... BLK SHED, may be to futzed with as well... Just heed the rec's that I have discovered over many sessions in my lab.... If your runs are coming from inside runs, then the problem is in BLK SHED, but be very careful, because if you futz with it too much, the CPU sack numbers will rise....

Here is the bottom line on slider tuning.... It's Dominoes... In other words, move one domino and another one is impacted, move any sequence of dominoes too much, and the whole structure comes tumbling down... And as we all know, the "structure" that we are trying to create is the Holy Grail of Madden, to recreate what happens on Sunday, Monday through Saturday on our flat screens....

Welcome to my world of P-A-I-N..... Dealing with the Dominoe effect as well as mastering the balance as to not let the sliders overpower the underlying player attributes...

Appreciate the feedback, keep us in the loop regarding your experiences....

Give me your VOTE!!!!!

Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.

Last edited by MarketingWiz; 11-03-2012 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:45 PM   #877
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#1 game feels to easy trying to make it sim...i would rather think every play and earn my way to a sb then have it be easy just for the sake of sim...gets very boring after a while when its easy
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:10 AM   #878
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Just wanted to chime in about subs real quick. I've been playing with fatigue set at 75, and at this setting auto-subs actually work. It ties into your player's stamina so you have to keep that in mind when you set your auto-subs, but I've been consistently seeing my starting hbs, as well as wrs coming out when they get tired. The downside is that injuries occur more frequently when players are fatigued, but I've also noticed something interesting in that regard - animations. I'm not entirely 100% on this, but I think that the animations after the tackle reflect the fatigue the players are feeling. For example, I started a drive at the 20 and made 5 passes for medium to short yardage with 4 of those passes going to my #1 wr. The guy is a beast but his only issue is a relatively low stamina. After his third catch, the after play animations show him getting up a bit slower - this is what I'm talking about. Since tackles drain stamina, my guy was getting fatigued, which the animation showed. He came out after his next catch which makes me think the animations are accurate in reflecting fatigue. I've seen this trend a lot with players I use heavily in my games. It's something to keep in mind, and is important because it can let you know when to sit your guy to give him rest so he won't get hurt.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:34 AM   #879
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My league uses these Sliders and they are mad good, the only problem I see are the occasional broken tackles that well, shouldn't be broken tackles.
Other than that, these are perfect.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:01 PM   #880
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Hey Wiz, excellent job on the sliders. You saved the game of madden for me. Been following this thread for sometime. I have played a handful of games using your most recent update. I play 15 min quarters, 15 sec play clock. Games have been unbeilievable! The only problem I have, the games are very high in scoring. I do not let the play clock run down. Do not have the time (kids) plus I have a problem with patience. The question I have for you is is if I drop the the quarters to 13min do you think the scoring would be toned down a little bit with it not affecting the game play? Also if I go to 13 min what play clock runoff you think I should use. Great work on these. Thank you on any feedback you could give me.
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