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M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

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Old 11-30-2012, 01:27 PM   #1081
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturzinator
I think he's referring to his own slider patch, not the EA MUT garbage.

gotcha...I didn't think it affected the game from what I was reading about it.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:56 PM   #1082
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturzinator
I think he's referring to his own slider patch, not the EA MUT garbage.

Thanks Sturz.... I was referring to my "own patch" that is fervently being worked on....



Update on the Madden Holy Grail, NFL Sunday Realistic Sliders (tm):


This is how I break down the sliders:

Group A: the Human Skill Sliders (Directly controlling the action, such as directing the QB, directing the RB's path after hand-off or catch, and Tackling) ... Sliders that DIRECTLY impact Group A are: QB ACC, SPEED THRESH, BREAK TACKLE, RUN BLK, PASS BLK and TKL ...

These aforementioned sliders are INDIRECTLY influenced to some degree (meaning they due impart an complementing influence) by these sliders: WR CTCH, PASS RUSH, PASS REAC, INT, RUN REAC, and RUN BLK SHD,


Group B: the "timing" Sliders (These are Sliders that need to be "dialed in" to try to closely mirror the "timing" seen on NFL Sunday's) ... Sliders that DIRECTLY impact Group B are: PASS RUSH, PASS REAC, INT, BLK SHED and RUN REAC

These aforementioned sliders are INDIRECTLY influenced to some degree (meaning they due impart an complementing influence) by these sliders: RUN BLK, PASS BLK and TKL


Group C: the "Isolated" Sliders (Sliders that act more independently and do not necessarily have a significantly measurable complementing/indirect impact on other sliders) ... Such sliders that fit this mold are BRK TKL, FUMBLE, WR CTCH and all kicking sliders


Group X: these are "X-factor" Sliders (Sliders that "seem" to have an impact on the game, but difficult to quantify with objective statistical data, can usually only be seen by capturing a video "snippet") ... Such sliders that fit this mold are most of the Penalty sliders...


Ok, so going forward, I can now discuss which group of the sliders that I am working on and you peeps can understand what I am futzing with....


At the present time, I am spending ALL OF MY TIME working on Group B....

Here is a "peak" into the notebook in my lab:


ENTRY 165: LOGIC TO SETTING PASS RUSH SLIDERS RELATIVE TO THE "STICKINESS" and "BALL HAWKING" OF THE DEFENSIVE BACKS IN MAN TO MAN COVERAGE:
To figure out the proper timing for the pass rush, I chose what I felt was the "best attribute stacked", 4-3 scheme, defensive line according to EA sports.... Accordingly, this teams pass rush goes up against the "best attribute stacked" offensive line....

I control the defense and CPU controls the offense...

What I measure is the time it takes for any of the four down line men to force out of the pocket, and/or, sack the QB....

The logic here is that this DEFENSIVE line must be able to crash the QB at NO WORSE than 3.5 secs with a simple 4 man rush, no stunts or LB's rushing... I measure this against the "stickiness" of the defensive backs, in an effort to try to get the right "balance" for a sack, or forcing the QB out of the pocket .... I do not want the DB's to cover so "unrealistically tight", that the QB is "forced" into a coverage sack or "forced" out of the pocket to soon... I also don't want the INT slider to be so unrealistically high, that the DB's, must "stick" to the WR to achieve an aggressive "ball hawk" move...

This part of the defensive "sacking/forcing out the pocket" process is very subjective to what my eye feels looks right and what my gut tells me feels right and ultimately garners my "NFL Sunday Realistic (tm)" seal of approval.... The thread will be the ultimate judge of my opinions in this area....

To ensure accuracy, this exercise is repeated with the "best attribute stacked", 3-4 scheme, defensive line against THE SAME offensive line and rush 3 down linemen and one OLB or MLB...


ENTRY 168: LOGIC TO SETTING RUSH REAC SLIDER & COMPLEMENTING RUN REAC, BLK SHED and TKL SLIDERS:
To figure out the proper timing for the "block shed" of the defensive line on runs to the outside of the tackle, I chose what I felt was the "best attribute stacked", 4-3 scheme, defensive line according to EA sports.... Accordingly, this team's "block shed/run stop skills" go up against the "best attribute stacked" offensive line that also has a solid RB with good edge skills and good awareness.... This test is also repeated exactly with a 3-4 scheme

What I am looking for is how long it takes for any of these STUD D-LINE men to shed their blocks and take their tackling angle toward the RB, PRIOR to the RB approaching the line of scrimmage... Ideally I want this stud D-Line to start shedding and "engage" their tackling angle, before the RB reaches the line (again, this is MY SUBJECTIVE opinion of what I see and feel to be NFL Sunday Realistic (tm)) ... I don't want the D-Lineman to still be engaged in a run block, after the RB crosses the line of scrimmage, but I also, I DO NOT WANT, GOOD scat backs to be CONSISTENTLY nailed behind the line of scrimmage and not be able to get around the edge per se....

To get this "d-line / o-line" interaction correct, takes a lot of work....I first start off by making sure that I call a "base" run for a 4-3 defense (later repeated for a 3-4 defense).... I make sure that the CPU's playbook is "RUN HEAVY" to make sure that I see a good mix of different types of blocking schemes.... I pick a "base" run defense to make sure that I can choose to send blitzers, or not, and how many to send, depending on the number of blockers that the CPU brings to the plate...

Hours upon hours of tedious "instant replay" follows and waiting for the CPU to call the right type of play to analyze properly.... For example, if the CPU calls a 1 TE, 1FB, set with two WR on the same side of the field, this is a cheese play, because it is easier for the RB to get around the edge on the opposite side of where the WR's are set up, so this would not be a good play to measure and observe the "d-line / o-line" interaction...


Well, that's just another "peak" into Slider Wiz's lab... If ANY OF YOU have a suggestion or comment to improve my lab work, I AM ALL EARS... Bring it!






Now, a very important "trend" that I am seeing is that an accurate STAT game, does not coincide with good sliders.... Let me explain ...

ENTRY 42: GENERAL OBSERVATIONS. I have come to integrate three facts that I have been aware of for years, but did not know just how to reconcile them against playing with a good SIM slider set...Wellll, since for the first time ever, I am actually taking a stab at creating my own version of a SIM slider set, I can NOW reconcile these three facts with their impact on our SIM slider set/project...

The three key facts are that Madden video game players have two critical advantages that REAL football players do not... (1) Madden video game players, see the playing field FROM ABOVE, as if we are some "holy deity" floating above the line of scrimmage.... This affords us an opportunity to "see the field" and watch a play "unfold" at a much quicker rate than an NFL QB/RB/WR or defensive player ... (2) Madden video game players do not suffer the "wear and tear" that happens during an NFL game, thus REAL fatigue, mental focus breakdown due to exhaustion and dings are NOT FACTORED into the gameplay, so RB's/QB's/WR's and defensive players have the same "burst", "agility", "acceleration", "strength/accuracy", "power", yada, yada, yada... (3) Repetition makes you a better video game player, meaning over time, you "out grow" the sliders, or your draft picks and player progression "out grow" the difficulty of the original slider set....

What does this mean about good sliders, with great animations, accurate timing, accurate speed representation in the game, yada, yada, yada?

Wellll, glad you asked.... What I am seeing is that accurate sliders DO NOT NECESSARILY make for good SIM games!!....

What this means is that often, I see VERY HIGH scoring games, the passing defenses are to easy to dissect, catching the defense "flat footed" on runs is a too common occurrence, among other flaws... So having team's Defenses play like their NFL counterparts, DOES NOT SQUARE UP with having properly tuned sliders....

What seems to make MORE SENSE are sliders that are more challenging than your skill set, but, that are balanced in proper "timing ratios" so as to give you a chance to win, but not until you master how to read Defenses, how to scramble away from the rush, how to set up your blockers, don't force passes, how to use the pass to set up the run and vice versa, among other important VIDEO GAME traits that you must learn to stand a chance to beat a true set of challenging sliders...

Sooooo, this having been said, AFTER I feel comfortable with the base set, that the timing, animations, defensive coverage, block shedding, speed of game and that all of the four groups mentioned at the start of this post are working in harmony, THEN, and ONLY THEN, will I "crank them up" in proper ratios to make the scoring and stat aspect, SOMEWHAT realistic, but I am warning you now, that we may never truly achieve, NFL Sunday Realistic (tm) play....

Sorry peeps, but this is what the data tells me is the ultimate destination of the Madden Holy Grail NFL Sunday Realistic (tm) Slider project....

As they say, apply your theories to the rigors of testing, without personal bias or preconceptions, and FOLLOW THE DATA, because the TRUTH will set you FREE....



Slider Wiz out.


Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.

Last edited by MarketingWiz; 12-01-2012 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:44 PM   #1083
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We can't test them if, you don't put them out, Wiz!!!
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:59 PM   #1084
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

What sliders would you suggest to a newbie? I'm playing on Rookie but the game is insane, the computer AI on my team does not run it just runs into the backs of the people in front of them, or they just run straght to the sideline. I have to throw all the time and I throw more interceptiosn than my beloved quarterback ryan pickspatrick. I also noticed no penaltys being called so I increased the holding calls (cause it seems like all they ever call in the real games) and they call it like every 3 plays now but only against me (the player) team.

Help! I can't make my own thread around here so I would really appreciate a private message or reply.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:47 PM   #1085
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezyskillets
We can't test them if, you don't put them out, Wiz!!!
Be patient/read the post on this exact page. Slider Wiz is doing his best to iron out the kinks. Why rush into something that isn't ready? Patience man, patience.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:23 PM   #1086
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers23
Be patient/read the post on this exact page. Slider Wiz is doing his best to iron out the kinks. Why rush into something that isn't ready? Patience man, patience.

Hey Bud.... Shoot me a PM....


Slider Wiz out.


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Old 12-03-2012, 10:26 PM   #1087
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezyskillets
We can't test them if, you don't put them out, Wiz!!!


We are getting closer.... I am almost done with Group B....

Group C is done, and Group X is done.... Group A is almost done, but it is dependent on somethings from Group B, so I gotta get Group B done correctly....

What is vexing is how sensitive the timing of the O-Line and D-Line interaction is relative to the SPEEDTHRESH....

Plodding along.... Y'all gonna LOVE what I have done.... GUARANTEED!


Slider Wiz out.


Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.

Last edited by MarketingWiz; 12-03-2012 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:46 PM   #1088
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Cool man. I have a really good feeling a out these sliders....

I'm just keeping the hype alive!!!!
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