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M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

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Old 02-13-2013, 05:14 AM   #1433
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by wordtobigbird
So what have you noticed OPI/DPI effects most? I see you haven't moved them much. I am still playing with them both on 50. Would lowering OPI make the WRs more effective in route running or when the ball is in air or both?
Lower OPI, from what I can tell:

-Increases WR aggression on balls in the air. To me, this can override SPC ratings more than WR Catch. I used to have this on 5 and the WR's threw their bodies around trying to make plays. As far as a pure "action" standpoint 5/5 or 0/5 really gave it. I think it overrode abilities, though.

-Increases WR route running. WR will run routes better, again allowing even the average and below to run sharply on routes. Again, I don't like that. I want more ratings to express differences, so mid-high OPI is better for me.

So my thoughts are definitely both. Low(er) OPI will increase WR aggression to the ball in flight and in running routes.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:27 PM   #1434
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBLover
Lower OPI, from what I can tell:

-Increases WR aggression on balls in the air. To me, this can override SPC ratings more than WR Catch. I used to have this on 5 and the WR's threw their bodies around trying to make plays. As far as a pure "action" standpoint 5/5 or 0/5 really gave it. I think it overrode abilities, though.

-Increases WR route running. WR will run routes better, again allowing even the average and below to run sharply on routes. Again, I don't like that. I want more ratings to express differences, so mid-high OPI is better for me.

So my thoughts are definitely both. Low(er) OPI will increase WR aggression to the ball in flight and in running routes.
1000% correct KB on all fronts.... This is why I personally DO NOT stray to far from the norm for OPI/DPI ratios.... In fact, I will go as far as stating, that going above "60" as a setting, begins to "dumb" down your DB and WR, which in a contrarian fashion would also mess with a WR's and DB's natural ratings given by EA ....

My lab data supports that the range for futzing SHOULD BE between 40 and 60 for OPI and DPI respectively.... Personally, I believe that the DB's and WR's are not "aggressive" enough at a ratio of "50 to 50", which is why I have chosen to have the OPI and DPI ratio to be 41 OPI and 45 DPI .... If I go above 50, it seems that good/great WR's and DB's seem to be stuck in sand and are slow to react and the game does not feel as "fluid" as it does when I have the OPI and DPI set at 41 and 45 respectively.... Also, my lab data supports that if the difference between OPI and DPI, when set below 50, is MORE THAN 4 units, the WR has a decided advantage and the QB completion %'s skyrocket .... I prefer that my WR be more aggressive than my DB, the thinking being that the WR has the inherent advantage of KNOWING the route, thus has an inherent advantage against the DB.... By setting the OPI / DPI ratios where I have dialed them in, provides to me that "slight" advantage that I am looking the WR to have.... I dropped the DPI by 5 points because it was at this point that I saw "aggressive awareness" show up for the first time with my good/great DB's, so I felt that this was a good thing, since on Sunday's in the NFL, good/great DB's DO FLY AROUND the field and leave their feet occasionally to break up passes... At 45 DPI, I do see good/great DB's leave their feet to break up passes....

At 41 OPI (keeping it a 4 unit difference with DPI) and with QB ACC set at 6, i get the stat line that we see on Sunday's... Great QB's 65% or greater completion pct and the rare pic..... AVG QB's are between 45% and 58% with the occasional pic, and crap QB's are below 50% with a guaranteed pic or two thrown in for good measure... If I set the OPI lower than 41 and made the difference between OPI and DPI to be more than 4 units, then QB completion %'s skyrocket and pics plummet .... Just sayin'....

Stay tuned... More to come on this topic...


Wiz out.


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the Gospel of Madden has spoken.

Last edited by MarketingWiz; 02-13-2013 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:39 PM   #1435
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingWiz
SesameStreet:

What my lab data supports is that BY LOWERING OPI, the receiver is in his route faster and keying on the QB, anticipating his throw.... Depending on where you dial in the DPI, and where you are setting PASS REAC, you can CERTAINLY tip the scales decidely in the WR's favor....

And while on the subject....

I think I found the magic combo while I was in the lab tonight for the OPI/DPI mix and having PASS REAC at 50 (also experimenting with CPU PASS REAC at "0").... For all practical purposes, it looks as if I have eliminated "DB mirroring" and the DB's are REACTING to the play in front of them....

With KB's encouragement, I was also able to produce YPC AVG.'s consistently of 4.5 - 7 after 5 games I played and the sacks did not go way out of control....

I am going to experiment some more to make sure my data is not "fools gold" and if it turns out to be correct, I will post the "tweaks" to my sliders that will finally produce NFL accurate YPC AVG.'s for the CPU QB, without letting the sack numbers go haywire, and if that was not enough, minimized DB "mirroring" to be almost non-existent, in other words, the DB's are REACTING to the play and not "SYNCING" to the WR....

Holy crap am I excited with what I am seeing on my flat screen.... FINALLY... FLUID WR play between the DB's & WR's.... Of course, I got to play many games to see how the CPU/HUM QB completion %'s numbers end up....


Wiz out.


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Thats whats up! I've been playing recently with 50 pass reaction for Hum and 0 for CPU and I like the way they react to the passes. But like you said in the other post the receivers should have the advantage of knowing where they are going and the defenders should be at least a step behind in most situations. With Hum pass reaction on 50 I see my DBs reacting after the WR but there is still some iffy stuff right after the cut. I am going to try your DPI:45 and OPI:41 and see how it goes.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:50 PM   #1436
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingWiz
1000% correct KB on all fronts.... This is why I personally DO NOT stray to far from the norm for OPI/DPI ratios.... In fact, I will go as far as stating, that going above "60" as a setting, begins to "dumb" down your DB and WR, which in a contrarian fashion would also mess with a WR's and DB's natural ratings given by EA ....

My lab data supports that the range for futzing SHOULD BE between 40 and 60 for OPI and DPI respectively.... Personally, I believe that the DB's and WR's are not "aggressive" enough at a ratio of "50 to 50", which is why I have chosen to have the OPI and DPI ratio to be 41 OPI and 45 DPI .... If I go above 50, it seems that good/great WR's and DB's seem to be stuck in sand and are slow to react and the game does not feel as "fluid" as it does when I have the OPI and DPI set at 41 and 45 respectively.... Also, my lab data supports that if the difference between OPI and DPI, when set below 50, is MORE THAN 4 units, the WR has a decided advantage and the QB completion %'s skyrocket .... I prefer that my WR be more aggressive than my DB, the thinking being that the WR has the inherent advantage of KNOWING the route, thus has an inherent advantage against the DB.... By setting the OPI / DPI ratios where I have dialed them in, provides to me that "slight" advantage that I am looking the WR to have.... I dropped the DPI by 5 points because it was at this point that I saw "aggressive awareness" show up for the first time with my good/great DB's, so I felt that this was a good thing, since on Sunday's in the NFL, good/great DB's DO FLY AROUND the field and leave their feet occasionally to break up passes... At 45 DPI, I do see good/great DB's leave their feet to break up passes....

At 41 OPI (keeping it a 4 unit difference with DPI) and with QB ACC set at 6, i get the stat line that we see on Sunday's... Great QB's 65% or greater completion pct and the rare pic..... AVG QB's are between 45% and 58% with the occasional pic, and crap QB's are below 50% with a guaranteed pic or two thrown in for good measure... If I set the OPI lower than 41 and made the difference between OPI and DPI to be more than 4 units, then QB completion %'s skyrocket and pics plummet .... Just sayin'....

Stay tuned... More to come on this topic...


Wiz out.


Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.
I will have to give 41/45 a try in some of my sets and see how it plays out.

The thing about the advantage/disadvantage is that, yes, the WR (ideally) knows what he's going to do (though we've seen on Sunday's where the WR doesn't declare that to the QB with definition), but how well does he do it? How well can he hide his intentions from the DB? How well can he set up the DB?

I use either 0/50 or 0/25 on my Oakland CCM. Right now, I'm on 0/50 (0 DPI, 50 OPI) and I saw Moore break down out of his comeback and the DB just kept going like he was covering a streak. That gave Moore insane separation. I was able to deliver the ball so it met him out of the break and it was an easy completion.

This is also on low Pass reaction - thought to improve man coverage.

Moore is an excellent WR in my CCM, and his RTE showed up. Meanwhile, the rest of my receivers are mixed bags, inconsistent, never know what they'll get. They rely more on defenders making mistakes themselves instead of forcing mistakes like Moore and other truly good RTE/AGI/SPD/AWR receivers do in the CCM.

I also see my DBs get torched against good route runners. Greg Jennings caught 2 TDs in the fourth quarter to nearly beat me with 18 unanswered 4th quarter points. My pass defense is trash this year, dead last in picks and getting burned.

This is with the 'advantage' slanted to the DBs if 0 DPI is to give the max advantage.

IMO, it gives max aggression. The difference is, like you said, the defense is reacting/doesn't know unless he gets a clue/key/tell to go by, and even then it could all be a ruse. Combine that with my 70 AWR hyper aggressive DB that love press man coverage and Patrick Peterson, who's insanely aggressive...with average PRC and AWR...and...yeah, you can see how big plays can occur.

So whether that aggression is good or bad depends on the DB, while the good WR can be aggressive due to ability (high SPD and RTE and AGI), while good defenders can ball hawk and read well (Revis is one of the few that shut down Moore this year in my CCM, and Vontae Davis was doing a decent job, until he missed a ball hawk attempt at a key time)

I guess, I want to see mistakes on reads from the players on defense as well as attack mentality. On offense, the mistakes come from bad technique/ability as well as bad reads of space and judged time.

That's why I'm curious about how these new findings play out and will give them a try. I'm more leary of the 50 Pass reaction, given what I'm seeing on 25 to 30. If guys are getting torched on 25 to 30 - what would 50 be like, especially if it does introduce behavioral glitches and stupidity?
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:26 PM   #1437
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBLover
I will have to give 41/45 a try in some of my sets and see how it plays out.

The thing about the advantage/disadvantage is that, yes, the WR (ideally) knows what he's going to do (though we've seen on Sunday's where the WR doesn't declare that to the QB with definition), but how well does he do it? How well can he hide his intentions from the DB? How well can he set up the DB?

I use either 0/50 or 0/25 on my Oakland CCM. Right now, I'm on 0/50 (0 DPI, 50 OPI) and I saw Moore break down out of his comeback and the DB just kept going like he was covering a streak. That gave Moore insane separation. I was able to deliver the ball so it met him out of the break and it was an easy completion.

This is also on low Pass reaction - thought to improve man coverage.

Moore is an excellent WR in my CCM, and his RTE showed up. Meanwhile, the rest of my receivers are mixed bags, inconsistent, never know what they'll get. They rely more on defenders making mistakes themselves instead of forcing mistakes like Moore and other truly good RTE/AGI/SPD/AWR receivers do in the CCM.

I also see my DBs get torched against good route runners. Greg Jennings caught 2 TDs in the fourth quarter to nearly beat me with 18 unanswered 4th quarter points. My pass defense is trash this year, dead last in picks and getting burned.

This is with the 'advantage' slanted to the DBs if 0 DPI is to give the max advantage.

IMO, it gives max aggression. The difference is, like you said, the defense is reacting/doesn't know unless he gets a clue/key/tell to go by, and even then it could all be a ruse. Combine that with my 70 AWR hyper aggressive DB that love press man coverage and Patrick Peterson, who's insanely aggressive...with average PRC and AWR...and...yeah, you can see how big plays can occur.

So whether that aggression is good or bad depends on the DB, while the good WR can be aggressive due to ability (high SPD and RTE and AGI), while good defenders can ball hawk and read well (Revis is one of the few that shut down Moore this year in my CCM, and Vontae Davis was doing a decent job, until he missed a ball hawk attempt at a key time)

I guess, I want to see mistakes on reads from the players on defense as well as attack mentality. On offense, the mistakes come from bad technique/ability as well as bad reads of space and judged time.

That's why I'm curious about how these new findings play out and will give them a try. I'm more leary of the 50 Pass reaction, given what I'm seeing on 25 to 30. If guys are getting torched on 25 to 30 - what would 50 be like, especially if it does introduce behavioral glitches and stupidity?
KB:

What can I say that you haven't already eloquently laid out.... You da man....

I want to put my theories to the test with a large enough sample size to see if I have fools gold or if in fact their is a combo that unlocks better fluidity between DB & WR play for the OS community....


Wiz out.


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Old 02-14-2013, 12:56 PM   #1438
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

As a shot from the peanut gallery, these sliders took OAK to a 24-21 W vs. CIN in the Divisional Round, then a 27-24 win vs. DEN in the Conference Round before I fell to the Saints in an embarrassing loss.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:58 PM   #1439
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

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Originally Posted by JMP
As a shot from the peanut gallery, these sliders took OAK to a 24-21 W vs. CIN in the Divisional Round, then a 27-24 win vs. DEN in the Conference Round before I fell to the Saints in an embarrassing loss.

JMP:

Thank you for giving the sliders a shot.... Just wondering how they felt overall?

Drop us rundown of your likes and dislikes when you get the chance.... Once again, thank you for taking them for a spin...

I hope to have a "mini" update potentially on the passing game, the idea being that I would like to make the passing game MORE FLUID, and improving upon statistical passing averages ...

Look forward to reading your comments...



Wiz out.


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Old 02-14-2013, 09:13 PM   #1440
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Sorry, but have to say this first. I looked at your first post (a while back) and just thought that these weren't for me, lord knows what I was thinking. After getting to the playoffs with the Dolphins in year 1 (8-8 record, had Pats beat in Division wins as they went 8-8) I thought that the sliders I was using were too easy. 8-8 is realistic and I understood its the Pats that blew their playoff chance (I won week 17 in OT to get in, winner would get in) but the fact that Lamar Miller had a 5.6 YPC and 1300 yards in a rookie year and Davone Bess had 15 touchdowns (also streaking receivers was WAAAY to easy, broke man and hit them before the deep every time) just seemed off. The scores were good, the challenge was good, the numbers were OFF (and that pisses me off, Dolphins need to suck year 1 at least). I have not tried your set but I will now. If you would like I would be more than happy to update you with what I find (game by game, you have no idea how many sliders I've invested into).
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