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M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:49 PM   #193
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

quan15: Thanks for visiting my thread. I appreciate your open mindedness and willingness to be open to other ideas. I understand your takes on linebackers, angles of attack and such. The problem is that the rosters attributes suck to begin with. Too much unreal agility, elusiveness and acceleration just to name a few of my ongoing gripes. Soooo, if you begin with crap for rosters, is it any surprise that we need slider sets to "tame" the arcade nature of the game?

You are 100% correct though that EA has done a lot of things right in M13, ALOT!!! Really, really enjoying the the crap out this title.

Peace.

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:52 PM   #194
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

LegendRyder: I HIGHLY DOUBT that these sliders will work on Play Now mode. Play Now mode is just about PERFECT in M13 once you apply a reasonable set of All-Madden sliders. EVERYTHING just seems to work just right.

These sliders are built for the CCM ONLINE and OFFLINE mode. Keep in mind though that they are V.1, so some areas are rough around the edges, BRKTKL for CPU, INT FOR CPU for starters.

Play on!
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:45 AM   #195
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingWiz
quan15: Thanks for visiting my thread. I appreciate your open mindedness and willingness to be open to other ideas. I understand your takes on linebackers, angles of attack and such. The problem is that the rosters attributes suck to begin with. Too much unreal agility, elusiveness and acceleration just to name a few of my ongoing gripes. Soooo, if you begin with crap for rosters, is it any surprise that we need slider sets to "tame" the arcade nature of the game?

You are 100% correct though that EA has done a lot of things right in M13, ALOT!!! Really, really enjoying the the crap out this title.

Peace.
I agree that it may very well appear that running backs are too powerful in this game for the user and if tweaked too high also for the cpu. However, If you take into account (as I have stated) the schematics of a defense and an offense relative to the individual assignments of each position it will then be understood that by attempting (in this game) to "tone down" the abilities of the players, such as a running back, you will also have to tone down the defense's abilities which will in return create a snowball effect while playing in which nothing will quite feel right because it is not what you see in the NFL.

Running backs can be "shifty" a lot of times and hard to stop, but containing them using your linebackers and safties is how you counter that. If you were to take that part of the game away from this video game, then ultimately you are cheating yourself out of the realism that is the dynamics in football in general. If in a game running backs aren't juking as much and aren't as elusive then you have a dull game that may produce real stats but at the "cost" of the dynamic plays. Most people (I have observed) who post threads for sliders have this theory that you can not have both realistic gameplay and stats because users will "cheese" the game and outsmart their opponent's defense (especially the cpu).

The fundamental issue here is that in Madden (this one especially) the defense has weapons of its own but of course one must understand the "schematics", as I always talk about, that is defense in football to know how to utilize these weapons. Honestly most people who watch and enjoy football pay attention to the offense because it is what part of the game that appears to be most active and exciting. They miss completely that there is a "whole other world" so to speak on the other side of the ball. So when these same people post these setting they are doing it from an offensive perspective focusing on how to make the offense either more or less dynamic missing completely that it is about balance, therefore they should really be focusing on how to counter the offense with what the game of football has intended to be the counter...DEFENSE!! Yes I love defense just as much as offense, but more than that I try my absolute best to remain objective through all things in life because ultimately life is about that. Sorry for the brief philosophical rant. lol

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Old 09-09-2012, 01:28 AM   #196
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

quan15: Your preaching to the choir. I am a DEFENSE GUY at heart. The problem is, EA and their philosophy of how to maximize their sale of Madden. Notice that the cover boys are primarily, if not exclusively, offensive playmakers! There is a reason behind this. The game is tuned, the game logic is coded and stacked toward their sweet spot, DUDES who want to see LOT's of ARCADE STYLE offense. You are aware that EA will sell close to 2 fricking MILLION copies of Madden or more! Now chew on this, how many "true simmers" do you believe there are trolling OS forums and Madden slider threads? Possibly 30,000 blokes? 50,000? That is less than 3% of the total universe of Maddenites playing Madden. Now, as the head cheese in charge of EA Madden decision making, do you try to please 3% of the total universe and piss-off the other 97%, or do you please the 97% and blow fart dust on the 3% of hard core simmers? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

As others have confirmed, speed threshold was introduced in M10 as a way for speed to NOT be the end all be all in Madden. The idea was that the higher the threshold, the less difference there would be between faster & slower players in the game. That doesn't mean that DeSean Jackson is all of a sudden Tony Siragusa re-incarnated as a wide out, or that McFadden can't burn past a run stuffing Middle Linebacker. A high SPEEDTHRESH means that pursuing defenders won't be running in quicksand 40 yards behind the ball carrier. Bottom line, EA MENSAS must have put the SPEEDTHRESH slider into the game to appease hard core simmers, the 3%, who crave, demand and deserve a more realistic game experience.

As unpopular as it sounds, I believe I was among the first (first?) to throw down the gauntlet for a HIGH SPEEDTHRESH setting and have tried to move this forum toward the concept that the higher the threshold, the more realistic the gameplay. In fact, I have proved to myself in my Madden lab (Slim PS3, Panasonic 60" VT50, wall busting surround sound, LazBoy recliner, Coleman ice chest full of Sam Adams, bag of chips and dip, and my lazy a.ss dog farting by my side), that 40 times are more realistic at HIGHER THRESHOLD. And while I may modify the SPEEDTHRESH down in V.2, it will always be HIGHER rather than LOWER.

In order for a M13 defenses to reflect their true to life NFL counterpart, the LB's and Safeties cannot look or feel that they are stuck in sand as a burner rips it up by them. In other words, the separation gap between ball carrier and on coming tackler(s) must be realistic and not cartoonish. As I have correctly argued,by default, EA MUST make Madden come out of the package to be tuned to play insanely fast. This is why the logic does not add up that by tweaking the SPEEDTHRESH slider down, in other words giving even a greater advantage to the inherent speed of the game, you are going to achieve better realism? It just doesn't make sense. SPEEDTHRESH is the ONE SLIDER that impacts separation. TOO MUCH separation and the game is no different than NFL Blitz that I play against my nephews at the local arcade.

The reason that the defensive angles suck typically in Madden is once again based on the 97% majority, they want high scoring games NO MATTER what team they choose. They pick the Browns. Weeden is on par to the Mannings. They pick the "Fade"ers, Palmer is Brady in silver and black.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but it's just a concept that seems so obvious to me. 97% vs. 3%, you do the arithmetic.

Last edited by MarketingWiz; 09-09-2012 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:48 AM   #197
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingWiz
quan15: Your preaching to the choir. I am a DEFENSE GUY at heart. The problem is, EA and their philosophy of how to maximize their sale of Madden. Notice that the cover boys are primarily, if not exclusively, offensive playmakers! There is a reason behind this. The game is tuned, the game logic is coded and stacked toward their sweet spot, DUDES who want to see LOT's of ARCADE STYLE offense. You are aware that EA will sell close to 2 fricking MILLION copies of Madden or more! Now chew on this, how many "true simmers" do you believe there are trolling OS forums and Madden slider threads? Possibly 30,000 blokes? 50,000? That is less than 3% of the total universe of Maddenites playing Madden. Now, as the head cheese in charge of EA Madden decision making, do you try to please 3% of the total universe and piss-off the other 97%, or do you please the 97% and blow fart dust on the 3% of hard core simmers? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

As others have confirmed, speed threshold was introduced in M10 as a way for speed to NOT be the end all be all in Madden. The idea was that the higher the threshold, the less difference there would be between faster & slower players in the game. That doesn't mean that DeSean Jackson is all of a sudden Tony Siragusa re-incarnated as a wide out, or that McFadden can't burn past a run stuffing Middle Linebacker. A high SPEEDTHRESH means that pursuing defenders won't be running in quicksand 40 yards behind the ball carrier. Bottom line, EA MENSAS must have put the SPEEDTHRESH slider into the game to appease hard core simmers, the 3%, who crave, demand and deserve a more realistic game experience.

As unpopular as it sounds, I believe I was among the first (first?) to throw down the gauntlet for a HIGH SPEEDTHRESH setting and have tried to move this forum toward the concept that the higher the threshold, the more realistic the gameplay. In fact, I have proved to myself in my Madden lab (Slim PS3, Panasonic 60" VT50, wall busting surround sound, LazBoy recliner, Coleman ice chest full of Sam Adams, bag of chips and dip, and my lazy a.ss dog farting by my side), that 40 times are more realistic at HIGHER THRESHOLD. And while I may modify the SPEEDTHRESH down in V.2, it will always be HIGHER rather than LOWER.

In order for a M13 defenses to reflect their true to life NFL counterpart, the LB's and Safeties cannot look or feel that they are stuck in sand as a burner rips it up by them. In other words, the separation gap between ball carrier and on coming tackler(s) must be realistic and not cartoonish. As I have correctly argued,by default, EA MUST make Madden come out of the package to be tuned to play insanely fast. This is why the logic does not add up that by tweaking the SPEEDTHRESH slider down, in other words giving even a greater advantage to the inherent speed of the game, you are going to achieve better realism? It just doesn't make sense. SPEEDTHRESH is the ONE SLIDER that impacts separation. TOO MUCH separation and the game is no different than NFL Blitz that I play against my nephews at the local arcade.

The reason that the defensive angles suck typically in Madden is once again based on the 97% majority, they want high scoring games NO MATTER what team they choose. They pick the Browns. Weeden is on par to the Mannings. They pick the "Fade"ers, Palmer is Brady in silver and black.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but it's just a concept that seems so obvious to me. 97% vs. 3%, you do the arithmetic.
As much as what you just wrote was eloquently stated and though I agree in part with your assessment of the intention on the part of the Madden "makers" I must disagree with your original premise.

The concept of "speed threshold" could very well be in line with what you're saying but of course there is a perspective that one must consider when thinking about it in this way. What about the concept regarding "speed threshold" that because it has a large affect on all parts of the game there is another "battle" you have to take into account when adjusting this part of the game. I am referring specifically to the "battle" between not only the o-linemen and d-linemen but the linebackers as well.

In your argument above you refer to the speed separation between a running back and a linebacker. This once again (with no disrespect) is not taking into account the other aspects of the "run game". As a blocker (o-lineman/tightend/fullback) your job is to block the d-linemen in front of you and depending on the play attempt to get to what is called "the second level" as I am sure you are fairly familiar with this term. Now, that battle is dependent upon whether the "blocker" can for example with a toss/sweep hook around the defensive end (takle/tightend) and linebackers (guard/tightend/fullback). If he can not then essentially the play is doomed as long as the corner/saftey does his job and contains the running back. Most times this is why (as you stated previously) in the NFL these types of plays do not translate well by default because the defense is just to fast at that level (mentally=reaction time/physically=speed threshold;linebackers vs o-line).

The only way to successfully carry out this play is by first convincing the defense that you are going to run inside, you do this by wearing the front seven out and making them adjust to the middle (which I have seen done by the cpu with my sliders).

You also speak about the company EA and how they want to appease the 97% that is the what I call "casual gamer" and leave the 3% out to dry that being the "true simmers". I disagree for one reason only and that is, Madden 13.

This game focuses much much much more on appeasing that 3% (evidence by your delight with this installment) by evidence of the "infinity engine" and new "passing trajectories" along with the attention to detail regarding the route tree (receiver routes) and when a receiver looks for the ball. To me there would be no point in focusing on these areas as the "cheesers" couldn't care less about these things. All they want is to play one another on a Saturday night drinking a cold one and blowout their friends by 50 points and brag about it the next day. The "simmers" like yourself and me of course appreciate deeply what they have done and are trying to do.

Now, though when it comes respect that would be nice to consider a measly 3% but from a business perspective that will not translate well (just playing with words lol) to sales. But in fact this Madden has been the top selling one ever in these beginning weeks!! Could it be because this installment is more than just a roster update and some over hyped features. The complaints mostly come from the "true simmers" as we actually care how the game plays relative to the NFL. Even if it is 3%, I'm sure EA realizes that 3% of a few million translates to the lost of a lot of money if they are fed up with the game. Say it's 1 million, that would be 30,000 which equates to almost 2 million dollars in sales with a 60 dollar game..and guess what, the 97% percent won't care either way because they just want to play a football game and in this case whatever new Madden game comes out regardless of it's realism. It's all about perspective bro.

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Old 09-09-2012, 10:34 AM   #198
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

From the perspective of someone who played baseball not football but loves football now and is big into stats I have this idea about Min Player Speed Threshold:

First its important to note it appears to act different in CCM vs Play Now this year for some unexplained reason. Or maybe its not that slider but just the CPU RB that behaves different. I have found they run for a better YPC on 100 so that was my starting point.

I view speed threshold not as a tool to gain accurate 40 times or make the players look like they are running the same speed as on TV but as what I would call it a 'Big play slider'. Last year it was remarked and hopefully still works the same this year as the lower the slider the more big plays you will see. With this in mind I went over to ESPN's 2011 rushing stats and looked at how many big plays actually occur to be as objective as possible. We all have assumptions and I try to avoid making any and use NFL stats to make my decisions. So i went to here: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...1/seasontype/2

They show rushing attempts and rushes that went for 20+ yards. I divided rushing attempts by 20+ yard runs and found that on average running backs in the top 10 had 20+ yard runs on every 25-30 carries. With this in mind I can now tune the speed threshold to a number that will deliver me that experience in game. I am guilty of not spending more of my time changing sliders and less actually playing but for this setting I think you reallly need 3+ games played to test it out maybe even more like 5+.

I have began the thought of lowering speed threshold, while I still want it close to 100 which i've found helps the CPU gain those 2-3 yard runs rather than them being 1-2 yard runs, I also want to see the big plays at an accurate number. Maybe 100 gives you that I haven't played enough or tracked 20+ yard runs to determine that and am looking at it as I believe speed threshold can control that. But it's all just a theory. Sliders are very tricky however for I might get it where I want for the CPU running game lets say that at speed threshold 70 I am seeing them break off 20+ yard runs every 30 carries.. but then that threshold might make the USER Running game radically different too easy or too hard. I try to tune the averages for the CPU team firstly then adjust the human side afterwards. Just some jumbled thoughts I had at 9 AM good discussion fellers

Last edited by BrianU; 09-09-2012 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:57 PM   #199
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

BrianU: It's about the big play. I know how to set up my Defense and how to use LB's and Safeties, yet if the SPEEDTHRESH is not dialed in correctly, the game goes to the crapper sooner rather than later.

Set the SPEEDTHRESH to low and you will see average RB's break the homerun play once, and often times, twice a game. In my humble opinion, ONLY elite RB's should have a chance at breaking a homerun once a game or twice a game.

Are y'all READY FOR SOME FOOOOOOOOOTBALLL?!?!?!!?
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:43 PM   #200
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Just wanted to throw my hat into the discussion and say this is a GREAT slider set. Did a lot of reading and comparing before settling on this one, and boy am I glad I did. I am using the Jets, and have had great variation in games, from a 31-3 preseason beating of the Panthers to a 37-10 whipping at the hands of the Giants, to a 23-20 week 1 win over the Bills, in which there were two lead changes in the final minute! No plays felt cheap, everything felt organic. The turnovers were legit...I've been a NCAA guy for years, but this has been the most fun I've had playing a football game, indeed the most immersed I've been in a football game, in a long long time.

Great job.
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