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M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

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Old 09-23-2012, 01:34 PM   #433
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by dukebeatsuncagain
Here is an abbreviated Box Score from the pre-season game...

Philadelphia Eagles at New England Patriots
Aug 7, 20121ST2ND3RD4THOTSCORE
Philadelphia Eagles (CPU)0036--9
New England Patriots (USER)31009--22
Team Stats Comparison

PHINWE
Total Offense266235
Rushing Yards7083
Passing Yards196152
First Downs1115
Punt Return Yards1822
Kick Return Yards12332
Total Yards407289
Turnovers33
3rd Down Converstion5-157-18
4th Down Conversion1-11-1
2-Point Conversion0-10-0
Red Zone Touchdowns/Field Goals2/10/2
Penalties3-253-25
Posession Time25:0734:53
Philadelphia Eagles
PASSINGC/AYDSTDINT
M. Vick1/21600
T. Edwards18/3319612
RUSHINGATTYDSAVGTD
L. McCoy891.10
D. Lewis8222.70
D. Jackson2157.50
RECEIVINGRECYDSAVGTD
D. Lewis44711.70
L. McCoy35618.60
M. McNutt2126.01
New England Patriots
PASSINGC/AYDSTDINT
T. Brady6/75100
R. Mallett17/2914302
RUSHINGATTYDSAVGTD
D. Woodhead16764.70
S. Ridley461.50
S. Larsen188.00
RECEIVINGRECYDSAVGTD
R. Gronkowski55911.80
A. Hernandez4235.70
M.Slater3299.60


Obviously since it was just a pre-season game the stats are going to look a bit off, but most importantly the game FELT RIGHT. Once the backups came in Mallett was having his struggles getting the ball into the endzone in the redzone and had some awful throws. Edwards was Edwards and was spraying it all over but eventually got things rolling in the 4th and put together a TD drive.

All my INTs were warranted. I was trying to squeeze a couple balls into too tight of spaces for Mallett and he payed the price. One of Edward's INTs was off a lazy screen pass where my DB read it and Pick 6'ed it from the eagles 25, the other was off of a tipped ball. Both mine and theirs seemed realistic.

I was sacked 5 times, all of which came when the backups were on the field. Could of been because my lower string receivers weren't running routes properly, could of been the backup O-Line. I do remember in the pre-season the Patriots having trouble on the O-Line, so that checks out but I will keep my eye on it anyways. The sacks on Edwards were all realistic and mostly coverage sacks where he was panicking and started to scramble a bit...definitely something I could see happening to Trent in real life.

There were 6 forced fumbles. I would say half of which seemed unwarranted. 2 were on QB blindsides and one on Woodhead you could actually see the tackler's hand come in contact with the ball when wrapping for the tackle. The other ones seemed some what cheesy. I might drop the Fumble slider for both for the next game and see what happens. Kind of crazy that with fumble at 7 I am still seeing that many fumbles. Is 6 in a game a normal thing? Seems kind of high but once again we are talking about a pre-season game with backups.

But most importantly, like I said earlier, it all felt right. I am not too hell bent on stats, especially for these pre-season games, I just want a good feel and flow to a game...and the stats should work themselves out. You are going to see some anomalies from time to time, and that is what truly makes it realistic. This one felt great. It was a struggle when the backups came in, Brady did his work, and the CPU missed 2 long FGs. Something I haven't seen too much of in M13. There was also a delay of game called on the CPU...awesome. The 13 sec play clock kept the game moving at a good clip and it kept a constant feel of urgency on the whole thing. No relaxing or getting lazy and no over hot routing. Made it fun.

One final thing I also saw that was a bit annoying was that almost EVERY snap when I was on defense the CPU would hard count and every time one of my D-Lineman would jump, sometimes all of them at the same time, and they never got an offside call. Nothing too horrible just got annoying to see it almost every snap.

So all in all, I actually had fun playing this game...in pre-season no less! Please let me know some suggestions for the fumbles and offside issues I am having. I don't want to throw off balance of everything else, so any suggestions would be great. I want to have these down by Week 1 of the Regular Season. Pretty sure I want to roll with these in my new Simulation Style CCM. Good work my friend. Good work.


Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......

Bro the thread REALLLLLY appreciates your support and comments. From the PM's and thread feedback that I am getting, most if not all really like the "feel" of the game.... It feels closer rather than farther from the game we all love to watch on Sundays....It is by no means perfect, but damn does this beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaatch play closer to the real thing....

I kid you not, I am seeing outstanding individual play animations that I have NEVER seen on Madden before. I have had blocked punts, blocked field goals. I have had the CPU pull off fake punts, I see DB's perfectly time a pass deflection, I have seen BEEEEEAAAAASSSSSSST WR's go up and "out-wrestle" a DB for a ball when the DB had better position. I see the better QB's being able to "thread" a corners, posts, down and outs, fades that I typically never saw before... With a good QB, I can actually "arc" the ball over the defense on a fade and if timed right see the beautiful separation that my WR gets on the DB as my WR breaks away from the coverage... And yes, the younger QB's have a more difficult time performing with theses sliders.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, YOU HAVE TO STRATEGIZE for these sliders to bear fruit. This slider set is for guys that know and understand how football is played and are somewhat good with the sticks. Dudes that know the pros and cons of Cover Zones vs. Man to man. Dudes that know when is the right time to blitz and having the confidence and knowledge to use the corner blitz packages. Hot reads ARE critical with this set.

That having been said, the consensus seems to be the following:

1) Futz with the fumble slider

2) Futz with the INT slider

3) CPU and HUM pass defense may be a tad too aggressive in coverage, causing unrealistic pass deflections and or interceptions (read below)

In the games I have played, there DOES seem to be a higher number of interceptions than the NFL average. Fixing this is an issue of understanding what is going on. Simply moving the INT slider "down" does not properly address the issue. You see, an INT should happen, MORE often than not, on lame ducks put up by the QB (ie floaters, double/triple coverage, arc throws that are not properly timed, not timing the throw properly in a zone coverage look, in other words don't throw the rock in such fashion that your dude is going to be IN THE ZONE when the ball arrives, time your throw so that it arrives just as your dude is IN BETWEEN ZONES). If you futz with the INT slider ONLY, then poorly thrown balls will no longer cost you. I think that the way to address the problem is to futz with the PASS REAC slider/INT slider/WR CAT slider, simultaneously... In other words, the issue is a function of, AT LEAST, those three slider combined. My honest assessment is that I would move the REAC slider and INT slider in tandem first, before futzing with the WR CAT slider... Again, we are all beta testing so the answers will not come out until we test, futz, test, futz, record info, test, futz, record info, test, futz, etc. It is a tedious process, this is why I unleashed the RAW BETA set and not a POLISHED final set. The threads help is CRITICAL to get a good set of sliders completed to benefit all stick jockeys playing M13.

My take on the fumble issue is as follows: WRAP up the damn rock!! Every ball carrier that plays on Sunday's knows this. Also, it modifies your play calling, meaning running "solo" with your RB to the outside, exposes the rock to "hand pokes", "helmet spears", and flat out "violent collisions" that should all typically create the rock popping out of your possession.

As far as the QB in the pocket goes, the time in the pocket, which is increased by good offensive linemen, has a significant effect on a QBs ability to complete passes. The natural first pass at trying to establish this would be to look for a direct correlation between completion percentage and time in the pocket while adjusting for the distance of the throw. While a small positive correlation can be found, it does not seem to be of the magnitude one might expect, or at least I would not expect. This could be a function of the size of the data set, and that more data will demonstrate a stronger correlation, but I think that the complexities of the game of football, are more the culprit. There are a host of factors that could effect the relationship between time in the pocket (even adjusted for distance of the throw) and completion percentage. One area that is clear however, is that when a QB is under pressure, their completion percentage (adjusted for the distance of the throw) drops. In the 2007, when Peyton Manning is under pressure, his adjusted completion percentage drops from 86% to 46% and when Tom Brady is under pressure, his adjusted completion percentage drops from 71% to 39%. There is also a very direct connection between how long a QB holds the ball and the probability that they are under pressure. The graph below demonstrates the "survival function" or the estimated probability that a QB will not be under pressure, for any given length of time in the pocket.

This graph looks about like we could expect it to. As time in the pocket increases, the probability that the QB is not under pressure drops and the probability drops the fastest between 2 and 3 seconds. This suggests that the average offensive line has a fairly high probability of keeping their QB free of harassing defensive players for about two seconds, but there is only about a 40% chance that the QB will have 3 seconds without pressure.

This helps provide a baseline for the overall quality of an offensive line. Lines (or individual linemen) that can help increase this probability, can help increase the overall efficiency of the offense. Additionally, linemen that can increase the No Pressure probability, also provide the playcallers with increased flexibility in areas such as depth of routes and number of receivers running routes (as opposed to staying in to help block).

So in essence, if we futz with the fumble slider too much, we lose a great deal of the realism regarding exposing the rock or being able to stay in the pocket forever and not pay the price with a blindside fumble... I purposefully tried to set the fumble slider to the lowest threshold possible without it OVER-CHEESING. But it is quite possible, that I went too far, this is why feedback like yours IS ULTRA critical ....

Thank you for your support, keep playin' and keep reportin' in...

Peace
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:49 PM   #434
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

I definitely get a kick out of your posts, as for the sliders I haven't given them a shot yet but I think I'm gonna start a new CCM and give them a go. I love that pass rush stuff you posted, I posted something similar somewhere in the NCAA forum, just where is a bit fuzzy. In my current CCM I'm using the Raiders mainly because I like the idea of taking over a bad team with a brand new coach and seeing how his career pans out. With your sliders I'm going with the Eagles. Although I've lived and died(mostly died) with them since the Roman Gabriel/Mike McCormack days(I know I'm F/N old) I shy away from them in Madden because they're one of the top teams in the league and I fear using them will make the game too easy, plus neither Jason Peters or Mike Patterson are on the IR in the game because they sustained non football injuries. Anyhoo I can't resist anymore, I'm running with the Birds, using your sliders and proceeding to wax the league. I'll report box scores as I go.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:20 PM   #435
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]@n
MarketingWiz......I have to say man great job on these sliders. I been lurking on Operation Sports for the past 2 years or so to find the perfect sliders for Madden's 10-13 and NEVER found more realistic slider than yours. lol, I created an account just to show support and let you know that I appreciate your hard work. I played a total of 10 games with you current beta and I am very very pleased. I mean this is REAL FOOTBALL. Just like many others have said on this thread "You saved M13 for me". You can't cheese on these! You actually have to strategize! I love how you implemented fumbles. It is so realistic! Anyone that plays football knows you have to cover up the ball, make fast reads, audible, use your check downs, manage fatigue etc.

From an Offensive perspective I did not notice anything really off. It felt great! I ACTUALLY had to earn a TD. The offensive superstars actually play like superstars! The passing is tough but FAIR and most importantly REALISTIC!!!

From a Defensive perspective it felt great. The superstars played like superstars and the duds played like duds. The only concern I have on this side of the ball is the amount of int's I get.

Prominent issues that are of concern:

1) 60% of the games I played the CPU threw 3 to 5 int's despite the "caliber" of the Quarterback.

2) CPU playcalling wasn't too bad but needs to be addressed. However, I am somewhat of a believer that it is dependent upon what DEF you use/choose.

3) Sometimes I felt like it was too easy for me to bounce on the outside when running the ball. It seemed like a good percentage of the time I was picking up a descent amount of yards. I would just call Power runs, Off tackles, and counters. I mean, I was using STL with Steven Jackson (86SPD/87ACC) but cmon I should not be bouncing on the outside consistently and gaining 7 to 9 yds. This was against numerous defenses such as Seahawks, Cards, GB, Bears, and MIA to name a few. My O-line is not even that great.....other than that running felt great. lol, I had to make a house rule and limit myself from bouncing outside too much. I'm good with the sticks but I was pretty surprised my blocks were held for as long as they were. BTW auto sprint is on and I'm using STL.

I hope my feedback is of help. Great job on these sliders man........

Wiz is da man!!!


Brawwwww: You PUUUUUUUUUMMMMPED me up. I am howling like a wolf and pounding my fists to my chest like Tarzan, right now.

Are you kidding? You enjoyed the set so much that you actually registered for an new account just to sing the beta sliders praises? Duuuuuude, that is "Bro Hall of Fame", "'nadding-up", stuff right there .... Around the tree you piss on (colloquialism for "your stomping grounds"), you my man, must make an excellent wing man. Humbled to my core to have your support.


Regarding your observations, here are my takes:

1) Sliders cannot address the CPU playcalling. My personal band aid is as follows: I put together a defensive audible set of five plays. Of these five plays, 3 of them are for pass plays and two are for run plays. For the pass plays I set a base set with four D-line men, three D-line men and a Prevent Zone. A base set means that there is no blitzers assigned. Base set could be a zone coverage defense as long as there aren't any blitzers assigned. On run defenses, I do the same, I pick two base running sets with no blitzers assigned. So, a normal 4-3/3-4 and a normal Nickel with the the safeties dropping back to protect over the top.

I then play GAMEFLOW ONLYwhen I am playing defense.

If I happen to get a defense selected for a run play that I am not comfortable with and the CPU offense is in a 3 WR set, I then audible the base Nickel defense and start furiously telling my linebackers, and safeties what I want them to do before the CPU snaps the ball. I also decide what I am going to do with the D-Line (ie crash, pinch them all in and crash, skew the d-line push to the right or left, etc.) If the CPU comes out in a 2 WR set, then I audible the 4-3 base set and start the aforementioned process again.

If I happen to get a defense selected for a pass play that I am not comfortable with, I then audible on of my base defenses and start assigning blitz assignments.

The key here is NOT TO CHEAT yourself or the integrity of the game. Use the audible process sparingly and ONLY if just makes NO sense to the SITUATION on hand! For example if the CPU is inside the 10 coming in for a score, and GAMEFLOW calls a COVER 4 out of the Prevent set, wellllllll, we all know that this is BULLSH1T.... This would be a great situation to consider using one of the audibles you have set up.

This work around is not foolproof but it does help bring MORE realism to the game...

2) Regarding INT's see my previous post on the issue... Don't get me wrong, ultimately something futzing needs to happen because I also agree that AT TIMES, there is a tendency to see more int's than normal.

3) House rule for limiting yourself to runs/counters to the outside may be in order. I find myself in similar situations. This was one of my MAIN motivations to set the FUM slider so low... However, what I do to address this personal vice is to use GAMEFLOW for the first two plays in a 4 down set, and then call my own play for the 3rd down play. I do this up until I get inside the CPU's 10 yard line. At this point, ALL BETS are off baby!


Once again THANK YOU so much for taking time out of your life to contribute to this community slider project...



Keep playin', keep postin', keep Maddening!

The Gospel of Madden has spoken!

Last edited by MarketingWiz; 09-23-2012 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:31 PM   #436
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by orion523
I definitely get a kick out of your posts, as for the sliders I haven't given them a shot yet but I think I'm gonna start a new CCM and give them a go. I love that pass rush stuff you posted, I posted something similar somewhere in the NCAA forum, just where is a bit fuzzy. In my current CCM I'm using the Raiders mainly because I like the idea of taking over a bad team with a brand new coach and seeing how his career pans out. With your sliders I'm going with the Eagles. Although I've lived and died(mostly died) with them since the Roman Gabriel/Mike McCormack days(I know I'm F/N old) I shy away from them in Madden because they're one of the top teams in the league and I fear using them will make the game too easy, plus neither Jason Peters or Mike Patterson are on the IR in the game because they sustained non football injuries. Anyhoo I can't resist anymore, I'm running with the Birds, using your sliders and proceeding to wax the league. I'll report box scores as I go.

Dude don't sweat it on the age, I have been known to blow a few "dust farts" myself (ppfffffffftttttttt... silent but deadly .....keeps the nephews honest .... hehehehehe....)

You brought up a good point that I meant to share with the thread.... I tend to choose a p1ss poor NFL franchises to lead to the promised land when I play CCM... 'Faiders, Lambs, Brownies, Buffalo Nickels, Succaneers, are just examples of a few franchises that I like to handle...

Thanks for your support and feedback.




Keep playin', keep postin', keep Maddening!

The Gospel of Madden has spoken!
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:46 PM   #437
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these felt good but I had 177yds with 78% with freeman against the panthers.

why do you have pass reaction so low for the cpu? do you believe in reverse sliders because I didn't had any hard time passing the ball at all. why not leave it at 50 as human is?



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Old 09-23-2012, 04:25 PM   #438
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by booker21
these felt good but I had 177yds with 78% with freeman against the panthers.

why do you have pass reaction so low for the cpu? do you believe in reverse sliders because I didn't had any hard time passing the ball at all. why not leave it at 50 as human is?



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Wassssssup my man... Thank you for the support and comments.

Regarding your take, in my beta testing, I have seen a "reverse" effect on the Pass React slider.... Hence, the lower you set it for the CPU, the better "reads" and pass deflections you will see and experience....

In other words....

Low CPU PASS REACT slider = tight coverage

High CPU PASS REACT slider = loose coverage


Separately, try these sliders for more than one game.... I have found that game to game, NO MATTER what sliders you use, you get "anomaly" games... I think that EA programs the code logic to purposefully create the "On any Given Sunday" effect, meaning every once in a while you get a game experience that "lays an egg" in general terms...

I have had games where I just plundered the CPU, and then I have had games where I have had my head handed to me, hence the "On any Given Sunday" effect....


Keep playin', keep postin', keep Maddening!

The Gospel of Madden has spoken!

Last edited by MarketingWiz; 09-23-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:18 PM   #439
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Sup Fam.

I enjoyed reading your approach to playing Defense. Myself I set playcalling to Conventional before kickoff, call whatever plays without hotroutes/audibles on Offense and on Defense I use Ask Madden and always pick the middle play. It's sad you have to play this way but it gives the CPU an honest chance, in Play Now you dont need to do such silly antics to get a good game but barring a hail mary from EA Sports we may be forced to commit to these silly antics.

I am having trouble with dropped passes, not just with your set but in general. I was wondering how you use your WRs. Do you always hit B to switch to the WR immediately after throwing, and manually using Y to catch then run after the catch yourself every time? I have a tendency to run upfield early thus dropping the rock but it seems with WR Catching so low that if I dont manually click on my receiver and manually catch he just ends up dropping it half the time.

Frustrating but maybe this rant will help me focus. Cheers mate!

Edit: Talking bout short passes (under 10 yards) it's like you don't have much time to switch players and tap Y for those passes but maybe I just need to do more finger exercises. Just curious how other people do it, if you User catch every pass even the short ones?

Last edited by BrianU; 09-23-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:42 PM   #440
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianU
Sup Fam.

I enjoyed reading your approach to playing Defense. Myself I set playcalling to Conventional before kickoff, call whatever plays without hotroutes/audibles on Offense and on Defense I use Ask Madden and always pick the middle play. It's sad you have to play this way but it gives the CPU an honest chance, in Play Now you dont need to do such silly antics to get a good game but barring a hail mary from EA Sports we may be forced to commit to these silly antics.

I am having trouble with dropped passes, not just with your set but in general. I was wondering how you use your WRs. Do you always hit B to switch to the WR immediately after throwing, and manually using Y to catch then run after the catch yourself every time? I have a tendency to run upfield early thus dropping the rock but it seems with WR Catching so low that if I dont manually click on my receiver and manually catch he just ends up dropping it half the time. Frustrating but maybe this rant will help me focus. Cheers mate!
Wadddup bloke? Welcome back.

I do not have that problem with regards to catching. However, I do not switch to WR after the throw.

Reason? I have found that the internal speed/timing clock for the M13 code logic is not right.... It is my interpretation that the speed/timing clock for M13 is running fast.... This I believe is the issue with the CPU run game.... It just seems that the HUM Defense is always at least half a micro-step faster once the AI logic engages the HUM Defense to recognize run... Once the AI logic has the HUM Defense engage, the linebackers and safeties just zip at super human speed at the CPU runner.... I have been able to tame the CPU runner crumbling to the ground because he runs into his lineman's a.ss, but still consistently see problems with the way the HUM Defense reacts once it is engaged by the AI logic.... HUM Defense zips and darts with uncanny agility and speed to the CPU RB.... I too like engaging my WR after the throw, but in this year's Madden, I always seem to be "early" and have more than an acceptable amount of drops....

Just my two cents...


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