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M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

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Old 10-17-2012, 07:12 PM   #593
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by willIam9387
What about the tackle value for the human. I've seen some ridonkulous runs where a ball carrier has strung off like five to six broken tackles and I'm the falcons D no slouch either, so I up tackling as well or should the increase in human reaction help with gettin my players to swarm around the ball carrier. Because one thing I like about the set is that at zero tackle you really have to play good disciplined defense, but I've seen one too many long gainer that shouldn't have happened but the CPU RB just decided to go into beast mode....any thoughts?
I appreciate your observations.... Here are my thoughts....

My philosophy on slider tweaks is, to try, to not let the slider tweaks, interfere with the underlying attributes of the player....

Example: Brady should have a better QB rating than say, Gabbert, or for that matter Ponder, by seasons end. Agree? Yes? Good. Read on.... Soooo, with this in mind, if you were to set the slider to let's say, QB ACCURACY of 100..... What you are in essence saying is that you want Gabbert, Ponder and every other "C" level NFL quarterback to have the passing skills of Brady... So in essence, your sliders have "obliterated/obfuscated" the underlying value of the player attributes that EA Sports has programed in for Ponder, Gabbert and every other average NFL quarterback.... Is this reality? No. Would it help you be a more accurate armchair quarterback? Yes.

Bottom line. I am a simmer. I want realism to come through in my game and demand it from my sliders. Now unfortunately, due to AI logic issues outside of my control, M13 provides us a piece of clay that at times is hard to mold M13 into a truly realistic sim NFL football experience. That having been said, slider tweakers have to make choices and sacrifices...

Here are my choices and sacrifices:

1) When given a choice, those sliders that influence the core basic attributes of the game, it's best to LEAVE them be!!! What are the core basic attributes of the game? Glad you asked. They are throwing, catching, tackling, kicking and running. Period!

So...

1) Throwing is best represented by the QB ACC slider. Other sliders impact QB stats, but the QB ACC has the most direct impact
2) Catching is best represented by the WR CTCH, PASS REAC, and INT sliders. INT slider? Yes. The defensive players are also receivers, they just wear a different jersey and are not as gifted as offensive receivers to catch the ball, that is why they make their living as defensive players and not offensive players.
3) Tackling is best represented by the TKL slider. The BRK TKL slider should complement the TKL slider in an inverse linear relationship (trust me, rocket science sh1t that I don't have time or space to elaborate on), kind of like, yin and yang, but in M13 the BRK TKL slider is broken and cannot be counted to act in an inverse linear relationship as logic would dictate that it should
4) Kicking is best represented by the Special Teams sliders.... Pick in an indoor arena, pick the strongest leg kicker, and every kick-off should go just far enough into the end zone to trigger a touch-back. The elite strongest leg kicker should be able to kick 60 yard field goals, meaning that on the kick meter, you perfectly timed it to completely fill the kick meter, after engaging it with the right stick, and the rock should barely clear the posts. Again this should happen in practice in indoor arenas, no wind, no rush. This is how I set the kick sliders and punt sliders, I take the strongest legs, go to an indoor arena, and tweak the slider until I am just 10% below that kickers punt average. Why 10% less? To factor for wind. For the field goal kicker, I make sure that I can clear 60 yards indoors, because with wind, in theory the kicker, with proper user timing, should be able to reach 60+ yard field goals if they are controlling the elite strong leg kickers in an outside stadium... Through NFL history, their has been 12 field goals made of 60 or 60+ yards, so it is logical that the kickers with the strongest legs SHOULD be able to get a 60 yard field goal, especially if there is wind behind them.
5) Running is best represented by several factors. They include, BRK TKL, RUN BLK, RUN REAC, TKL and SPEED THRESH sliders. Unfortunately, like I mentioned above, the BRK TKL and TKL slider do not complement each other.

That having been said, why do I lay this out? Because if you are asking me if raising the HUM TKL slider will improve the CPU BEAST MODE RB ISSUE, the answer is simply..... no.

In fact, There are a few sliders that I prefer be left alone on the HUM side so that the natural attributes of the virtual player come through.... Those sliders are PASS BLK for HUM, PASS REACT for HUM, RUN BLK for HUM, and all of the defensive run sliders for HUM, including, HUM RUN REAC, HUM BLK SHED and HUM TKL. In my opinion, if you mess with these sliders, you begin messing with the foundation of the players attributes. Appreciate and accept that your team of choice has issues, deal with it in your schemes, play calling, player drafting, trades, etc.

That having been said, leaving TKL at "0", in my humble opinion allows the true DEFENSIVE attributes of your individual defenders to come through.

To address the CPU RB BEAST MODE issue, I think the issue can be addressed by lowering the BRK TKL for the CPU and raising the RUN REAC for the HUM.... This is in the lab and I hope to have a P0ST-PATCH V.2 BETA SLIDER recommendation/update.

Thanks once again for your support.



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Old 10-17-2012, 07:16 PM   #594
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiceMan
Wiz, any thoughts on how these may work on very slow? I haven't gotten much time in w/the new set but the game feels super fast now compared to before.
Brah, glad to have you back stud.... I have not had a chance yet, but do plan on getting around to it.

Beat me to it. Try it out and give us all feedback.

Peace.



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Old 10-17-2012, 08:12 PM   #595
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingWiz
I appreciate your observations.... Here are my thoughts....

My philosophy on slider tweaks is, to try, to not let the slider tweaks, interfere with the underlying attributes of the player....

Example: Brady should have a better QB rating than say, Gabbert, or for that matter Ponder, by seasons end. Agree? Yes? Good. Read on.... Soooo, with this in mind, if you were to set the slider to let's say, QB ACCURACY of 100..... What you are in essence saying is that you want Gabbert, Ponder and every other "C" level NFL quarterback to have the passing skills of Brady... So in essence, your sliders have "obliterated/obfuscated" the underlying value of the player attributes that EA Sports has programed in for Ponder, Gabbert and every other average NFL quarterback.... Is this reality? No. Would it help you be a more accurate armchair quarterback? Yes.

Bottom line. I am a simmer. I want realism to come through in my game and demand it from my sliders. Now unfortunately, due to AI logic issues outside of my control, M13 provides us a piece of clay that at times is hard to mold M13 into a truly realistic sim NFL football experience. That having been said, slider tweakers have to make choices and sacrifices...

Here are my choices and sacrifices:

1) When given a choice, those sliders that influence the core basic attributes of the game, it's best to LEAVE them be!!! What are the core basic attributes of the game? Glad you asked. They are throwing, catching, tackling, kicking and running. Period!

So...

1) Throwing is best represented by the QB ACC slider. Other sliders impact QB stats, but the QB ACC has the most direct impact
2) Catching is best represented by the WR CTCH, PASS REAC, and INT sliders. INT slider? Yes. The defensive players are also receivers, they just wear a different jersey and are not as gifted as offensive receivers to catch the ball, that is why they make their living as defensive players and not offensive players.
3) Tackling is best represented by the TKL slider. The BRK TKL slider should complement the TKL slider in an inverse linear relationship (trust me, rocket science sh1t that I don't have time or space to elaborate on), kind of like, yin and yang, but in M13 the BRK TKL slider is broken and cannot be counted to act in an inverse linear relationship as logic would dictate that it should
4) Kicking is best represented by the Special Teams sliders.... Pick in an indoor arena, pick the strongest leg kicker, and every kick-off should go just far enough into the end zone to trigger a touch-back. The elite strongest leg kicker should be able to kick 60 yard field goals, meaning that on the kick meter, you perfectly timed it to completely fill the kick meter, after engaging it with the right stick, and the rock should barely clear the posts. Again this should happen in practice in indoor arenas, no wind, no rush. This is how I set the kick sliders and punt sliders, I take the strongest legs, go to an indoor arena, and tweak the slider until I am just 10% below that kickers punt average. Why 10% less? To factor for wind. For the field goal kicker, I make sure that I can clear 60 yards indoors, because with wind, in theory the kicker, with proper user timing, should be able to reach 60+ yard field goals if they are controlling the elite strong leg kickers in an outside stadium... Through NFL history, their has been 12 field goals made of 60 or 60+ yards, so it is logical that the kickers with the strongest legs SHOULD be able to get a 60 yard field goal, especially if there is wind behind them.
5) Running is best represented by several factors. They include, BRK TKL, RUN BLK, RUN REAC, TKL and SPEED THRESH sliders. Unfortunately, like I mentioned above, the BRK TKL and TKL slider do not complement each other.

That having been said, why do I lay this out? Because if you are asking me if raising the HUM TKL slider will improve the CPU BEAST MODE RB ISSUE, the answer is simply..... no.

In fact, There are a few sliders that I prefer be left alone on the HUM side so that the natural attributes of the virtual player come through.... Those sliders are PASS BLK for HUM, PASS REACT for HUM, RUN BLK for HUM, and all of the defensive run sliders for HUM, including, HUM RUN REAC, HUM BLK SHED and HUM TKL. In my opinion, if you mess with these sliders, you begin messing with the foundation of the players attributes. Appreciate and accept that your team of choice has issues, deal with it in your schemes, play calling, player drafting, trades, etc.

That having been said, leaving TKL at "0", in my humble opinion allows the true DEFENSIVE attributes of your individual defenders to come through.

To address the CPU RB BEAST MODE issue, I think the issue can be addressed by lowering the BRK TKL for the CPU and raising the RUN REAC for the HUM.... This is in the lab and I hope to have a P0ST-PATCH V.2 BETA SLIDER recommendation/update.

Thanks once again for your support.



Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question in such a detailed way, believe me I read every word and we share some of the same opinions. I've always felt sim stats had to be achieved through realistic gameplay. What is realistic gameplay, players playing to their attributes. So I wholeheartedly agree with keeping the tackle slider at zero because in all honesty at zero it really feels like an nfl game in terms of missed tackles and really makes the physics engine shine as defenders who don't take good angles will have a more difficult time making the tackle. I'm almost tempted to put the brk tackle slider below twenty for both the computer and the user because I really want to see the ratings come into play even more.

There are two sets of sliders that really interact with each other on a play by play basis in terms of contact. The pass rush v. Pass block slider and the tackle v. break tackle slider. The pass rush v. Pass block slider the way you have it is great because the O-lineman have the advantage as we have seen countless video evidence of 165 pound lineman blocking Haloti Ngata space-eaters and J.J. Watt Behemoths. The interactions between the lineman haven't been given special attention by EA and currently the Infinity system doesn't address the issue. However, the break tackle v. tackle system is much more fairly balanced because of the new physics system in my opinion, so you can really see ratings shine in terms of tackling and breaking tackles with both sliders being close to zero. Ratings probably will come into play more. Plus the CPU rb doesn't need the super ability to break tackles any more because their run game is more potent. They carry with greater urgency and make quicker cuts and hit the hole more often than not. One thing I like about the patch is now it feels like an effort to stop the CPU from a measly three yard gain. Before the patch, you'd be happy if the CPU ran for that much.

I'm with you on the qb accuracy, it's perfect where it is. I like to throw the ball wide from time to time, and I really like playing when I'm on offense.

Right now, I'ma update your sliders to:

Run reaction hum 40

brk tackle CPU 5
brk tackle hum 5

Check that I'ma do the crazy and just zero out break tackle and report back.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:03 PM   #596
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by willIam9387
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question in such a detailed way, believe me I read every word and we share some of the same opinions. I've always felt sim stats had to be achieved through realistic gameplay. What is realistic gameplay, players playing to their attributes. So I wholeheartedly agree with keeping the tackle slider at zero because in all honesty at zero it really feels like an nfl game in terms of missed tackles and really makes the physics engine shine as defenders who don't take good angles will have a more difficult time making the tackle. I'm almost tempted to put the brk tackle slider below twenty for both the computer and the user because I really want to see the ratings come into play even more.

There are two sets of sliders that really interact with each other on a play by play basis in terms of contact. The pass rush v. Pass block slider and the tackle v. break tackle slider. The pass rush v. Pass block slider the way you have it is great because the O-lineman have the advantage as we have seen countless video evidence of 165 pound lineman blocking Haloti Ngata space-eaters and J.J. Watt Behemoths. The interactions between the lineman haven't been given special attention by EA and currently the Infinity system doesn't address the issue. However, the break tackle v. tackle system is much more fairly balanced because of the new physics system in my opinion, so you can really see ratings shine in terms of tackling and breaking tackles with both sliders being close to zero. Ratings probably will come into play more. Plus the CPU rb doesn't need the super ability to break tackles any more because their run game is more potent. They carry with greater urgency and make quicker cuts and hit the hole more often than not. One thing I like about the patch is now it feels like an effort to stop the CPU from a measly three yard gain. Before the patch, you'd be happy if the CPU ran for that much.

I'm with you on the qb accuracy, it's perfect where it is. I like to throw the ball wide from time to time, and I really like playing when I'm on offense.

Right now, I'ma update your sliders to:

Run reaction hum 40

brk tackle CPU 5
brk tackle hum 5

Check that I'ma do the crazy and just zero out break tackle and report back.





SURPRISE..... HERE the UPDATED SLIDERS......WOW, cannot believe I got to them so quick.... try them out.... They are yummy....




POST-PATCH BETA SLIDERS
V.2


Skill Level: ALL-MADDEN (oh yes I did!)

House rules: Avoid cheese plays that are guaranteed to work (ie. short curls, counters, blah, blah, blah)

Quarter Length: 15 min

Accelerated Clock: On: Minimum play clock set at 13 secs


Auto Strafe: ON

Auto Sprint: ON

Play Calling: Optional. With the new patch, I am calling my own plays.


Injury: 45

Fatigue: 60 (when accompanied with my sub out/in sliders)



Game Play Sliders: User/CPU

Speed: SLOW

Threshold: 50

QB Accuracy 6/7
Pass Block 0/0
WR Catch 46 - 50 / 46 - 50

Broken Tackles 40/50
Run Block 0/0
Fumble 6/5

Pass reaction 0/0
Int 30/30
Pass Rush 50/50

Rush reaction 50/50
Block Shedding 0/0
Tackle 0/0





Special Teams

FG Power 53
FG Accuracy 44 (the way that I kick is that I just use the right stick in Kicking. I don't aim with the left stick.)
Punt Power 52
Punt Acc 90
Kickoff Power 47




Penalty

Offside 99
False start 75
Holding 52
Face Mask 53
Clipping 54
Roughing the passer 50

The rest are 99, except for Defensive Pass Interference set at 97




Auto Subs

QB In: 2 Out: 0

RB In: 84 Out: 80

WR In: 84 Out: 80

FB/TE In: 70 Out: 65

OL In: 50 Out: 40

DT In: 50 Out: 40

DE In: 50 Out: 40

LB (3-4):In: 70 Out: 65 (4-3): In: 50 Out: 40

CB In: 84 Out: 80

S In: 70 Out: 65




Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.


Last edited by MarketingWiz; 10-17-2012 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:29 PM   #597
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingWiz
SURPRISE..... HERE the UPDATED SLIDERS......WOW, cannot believe I got to them so quick.... try them out.... They are yummy....




POST-PATCH BETA SLIDERS
V.2


Skill Level: ALL-MADDEN (oh yes I did!)

House rules: Avoid cheese plays that are guaranteed to work (ie. short curls, counters, blah, blah, blah)

Quarter Length: 15 min

Accelerated Clock: On: Minimum play clock set at 13 secs


Auto Strafe: ON

Auto Sprint: ON

Play Calling: Optional. With the new patch, I am calling my own plays.


Injury: 45

Fatigue: 60 (when accompanied with my sub out/in sliders)



Game Play Sliders: User/CPU

Speed: SLOW

Threshold: 75

QB Accuracy 6/7
Pass Block 0/0
WR Catch 46 - 50 / 46 - 50

Broken Tackles 25/50
Run Block 0/0
Fumble 6/5

Pass reaction 0/0
Int 30/30
Pass Rush 50/50

Rush reaction 50/50
Block Shedding 0/
Tackle 0/0





Special Teams

FG Power 53
FG Accuracy 44 (the way that I kick is that I just use the right stick in Kicking. I don't aim with the left stick.)
Punt Power 52
Punt Acc 90
Kickoff Power 47




Penalty

Offside 99
False start 75
Holding 52
Face Mask 53
Clipping 54
Roughing the passer 50

The rest are 99, except for Defensive Pass Interference set at 97




Auto Subs

QB In: 2 Out: 0

RB In: 84 Out: 80

WR In: 84 Out: 80

FB/TE In: 70 Out: 65

OL In: 50 Out: 40

DT In: 50 Out: 40

DE In: 50 Out: 40

LB (3-4):In: 70 Out: 65 (4-3): In: 50 Out: 40

CB In: 84 Out: 80

S In: 70 Out: 65




Keep playin'! Keep postin'! Keep Maddening!

the Gospel of Madden has spoken.

what is the computer block shedding?
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:46 PM   #598
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by agidio3
what is the computer block shedding?

My bad .... damn.... it is ... " 0 " ... zero ..... sorry pal

Also, HUM BRK TKL is supposed to be " 40 " ..... And speedthresh is "50".... Yes, "50"....

Guys, sorry for the typos, but I was trying to finish a report for work, and y'all know how it goes when you are watching the tube, typing sliders, and then editing reports for work.... Yikes...

Trust me, y'all going to love this set....

Typos, hate them...Peace

Last edited by MarketingWiz; 10-17-2012 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:11 PM   #599
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Is there much of a difference if WR catch is at 46 compared to 50? What do you personally use?
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:29 PM   #600
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Re: M13 KILLER SLIDERS FOR OFFLINE CCM... GUARANTEED CPU RUN GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoptheman10
Is there much of a difference if WR catch is at 46 compared to 50? What do you personally use?

Great question, GREAT question.... Shows me that you guys are paying attention, very close attention, I might add!

Yes there is a difference. You have to play several games to get it, but the jist of the matter is this.... Since it's release, in ALL-MADDEN there has been a problem with receivers dropping the ball...

Personally, I believe that all receivers drop balls, but at my original setting, 45, good receivers were missing catches they should catch... My assumption was that the "bug" in All-Madden must still be around... Soooooo, the most realistic setting is 47, but sometimes it goes weird and good wr's drop passes at the most inopportune times. That being said, I personally play it safe and dial mine in at 48. I still get drops but from the three complete games I have played with this slider set, I accept the amount of drops that I am seeing.... 49, and definitely 50, make mediocre WR's into good WR's in my opinion....

What is amazing is how "sensitive" the game is when you reach the "sweet spot" of the slider you are futzing with.... This aspect of the most recent patch just blows me away... Sooo, assume that there will be more futzing with V.2 of this Post-Patch Beta Slider set...

Like always, appreciate your support.....



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